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Thread: destructo....

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    Default destructo....



    Now, before anyone flames me.....let me begin by saying...

    Wow, I never even knew anything like this was brewing. Sure came out of left field. Now...

    I am sure that I am about as much in the dark with the politics of these proceedings as many of the other trovers here but my wife and I have met Des in person and he seems to be a very honest and down to earth guy. He went out of his way to meet up with my family and he basically became our personal photographer clicking away some great shots of our afternoon. He found out that our son loved dinosaurs and gave him a lifesized mold of a raptor's skull and claw. It is awesome. I am sure there were no ulterior motives here....he just wanted to be nice. We shared some ideas (very few indeed lol) on the fairy clue the evening it came out and spent hours just chatting about the boards. Not once did I ever feel he was trying to get anything out of me.

    I am not trying to take sides here and am also not speaking poorly of Cthree. We have chatted many times online and he too seems genuine. I am only stating that which I know of from personal contact.

    It is quite a shame to see these boards, a home to many talented and intelligent treasure hunters being destroyed from within. I think I can speak for many trovers in saying that I will be lost w/out the tweleve boards.

    robert
    .........time to add a DAR ring to my collection.........





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    I'm sure he's a good/honest guy. Just not a good/honest Administrator. Don't worry about Tweleve. We arent going anywhere, Foxy.

    http://tweleve.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4261

    Thank you for your comments.

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    I must say that I, like Fox, am heartbroken. I had no idea of any of this, and am not sure I want to.

    I will say that I trust Cthree. He had my back when my integrity was questioned, enough said.

    I don't know Des but he always treated me fairly too. and he clearly was a hard worker.

    It's all a damn shame.

    wilhouse

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    knowing this isn't a democracy (and never expecting it to be one), I realize that this may be my last post. I'm not interested in continuing the war or even fanning the flames, I am posting this as a favor to Des - who never did me any wrong.

    ==========

    After reading cthree's concoction of an excuse to steal the site, it's clear that this is entirely driven by his greed.

    Let me make it very clear that I have funded this site from its inception. When tweleve needed more space, I paid for it. When tweleve needed more bandwidth, I paid for it. Cthree had no interest in taking donations, saying that he would chip in for the needed upgrades, but that never happened. It's amazing that he wants money so badly now that he's actually had to spend money.

    That's another misnomer, I haven't gone anywhere. There's no obsconding with the tweleve funds. The _original_ site is still alive on my server as it was the day cthree pointed www.tweleve.org to a new server and _copied_ the forum on that day to his server.

    There is no need for a new server, nor to pay the $250 to the server cthree has copied the site to. The bill at the _original_ server is paid well into next year. Cthree is asking you for money to fund his theft of the forum.

    This entire event is a stunt so that he can get control of both the site and your money.

    Cthree has never sent me $1. On the other hand, I've paid cthree for the domain name that he's stolen. I've also paid cthree for the single prize he purchased for PALMS. His "risk" has always been $0.

    Now why am I in control of the funds? Because I've paid for everything. Before we accepted donations, tweleve was run on my dime. When I installed the donation link, we used my account for the simple reason that I had paid for everything! Cthree has chosen to remain anonymous and I refused to accept money from people without them knowing who I was. I had a premier paypal account that I was willing to use, cthree didn't. I had paid for tweleve expenses, cthree hadn't.

    Cthree says that it was "our account." I'm sorry, but it was never "our account" because I'm not foolish enough to give unlimited access to my bank account to anyone, and it was never "our" expense, it was my expense. Cthree was given viewing access to my paypal account and that includes all my PERSONAL charges and credits.

    When spiderman purchased a photo from me, she sent money to ME, not to tweleve. Cthree seems to think that he deserves part of that money.

    Cthree's claims that I purchased an airline ticket are blatantly false. MarvinPT SENT ME MONEY to cover half a ticket, and he did so through paypal. NOT to the contact@tweleve.org address, but to MY PERSONAL e-mail. The paypal account shows all the transactions, both to the contact@tweleve address and to my personal addess. MarvinPT's payment wasn't a donation to tweleve, it was a payment to me personally. The only outgoing money from the contact@tweleve address was the refunded donation to lucynymph.

    Cthree seems to think that INCOMING money to refund MY PERSONAL NON-TWELEVE related expense, sent to MY e-mail, is Tweleve funds. In fact, he lied outwright and said that I paid Marvin for the ticket. That's simply false.

    Now, let's get to the greed issue.

    Ask Doc, our most generous Benefactor what I said to his many repeat attempts to give more money to the site. If I am greedy, why would I turn Doc's generosity down multiple times.

    Ask lucynymph about the donations she gave a time that she really couldn't afford to when even she didn't realize that multiple donations were rash. I refunded those donations instantly. If I am greedy, why wouldn't I take advantage of the money she had already sent in?

    Ask suelough about the tweleve member that offered me $5000 to be an admin on the site, no other strings attached. If I am greedy, why wouldn't I have taken that offer.

    Between the cthree and I, one of us is a Stanford graduate in Engineering and Finance. One of us is a successful consultant who's just started a real estate company as a second job. One of us has created a contest that has paid out $10,000. One of us has purchased prizes for a contest that the other one refuses to help with. One of us has written a book for a hunt that (I hope) will give away at least $100,000.

    Then there's the anonymous cthree who probably hasn't graduated from a college at all. Whose job is hanging lights in a theatre and answering phones in a call center. And who is likely mad that I haven't given him any access to funds that he doesn't need access to at all since he doesn't pay any bills.

    Knowing that cthree steals things and takes control of them, WOULD YOU GIVE HIM ACCESS TO YOUR BANK ACCOUNT?

    And as for the reading PMs issue, only one of us has stolen data... and that's cthree. He's stolen the entire forum, PMs and all. Now if any of you have a single shred of evidence that I've read your personal messages, I'd love to see it. I haven't broken any token location or any secret that anyone else had presumeably in a PM. My two closest calls on tokens were teaming up to travel for other people who knew the location, not the other way around. Don't let your own paranoia make you miss the big picture that I created a site to share information and I posted more than cthree (who has hundreds of posts that are a single smiley face) and more than most other members. People used this site to find tokens for themselves, and the only finders who donated did so before their finds. So, people used information I and others posted, and good for them that's the point... but to claim that I've benefitted in any way from PMs is exactly the opposite of the truth. You come to the information library that I started and I'm taking your information? That's really just silly.

    I missed out on a lot of the initial token finds because I was in the hospital with my mother who was being operated on the same day the first token was found. For the reamaining tokens, I went on two trips where OTHER PEOPLE had me travel for THEIR LOCATIONS. One trip was wrong, the other was right, but on neither of those trips did I find an answer via PMs or any other source except the willful transfer of information with the people I teamed up with.

    And for the BTG hunt, I'll reiterate that I've had 99 answers before anyone else on tweleve and I've given away and traded answers with so many of you, I don't see what I'd gain... how can I steal what I've already given away. Again, I've given away more information that anyone else I know of, but somehow cthree wants you to believe that I'm stealing information from PMs?

    Bold accusations with little proof. The proof you do have is that cthree has stolen control and wants you to pay for it. Well, I will continue to serve the forum on this site, and now that cthree has forced this divorce I feel entitiled to send out the prizes for the sections of PALMS that are done and to give out the prizes for the unfinished sections to the runners up. I'll also continue to work on my hunt and I'll invite you all to join in on that.

    The two forums issue will eventually be resolved and I'm sure a court of law will rule in my favor and this will all be an unpleasant memory.

    Christopher Landauer

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by nodon
    knowing this isn't a democracy (and never expecting it to be one), I realize that this may be my last post. I'm not interested in continuing the war or even fanning the flames, I am posting this as a favor to Des - who never did me any wrong.



    Ask lucynymph about the donations she gave a time that she really couldn't afford to when even she didn't realize that multiple donations were rash. I refunded those donations instantly. If I am greedy, why wouldn't I take advantage of the money she had already sent in?

    This is ENTIRELY TRUE and I would like that to be known - well said, nodon...

    bronte
    Deep in Blue Dog's eyes will always lurk the hopes and longings of a melancholy people, but, like the Cajuns, who always trained their eyes on the future, Blue Dog must move forward.
    ~George Rodrigue fr 'Blue Dog Man'

    He must have a truly romantic nature, for he weeps when there is nothing at all to weep about.
    ~Oscar Wilde

    From sumthyngness into givyngness unto the given.
    ~fr 'DAR' m.s

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    Why wouldn't you just register a new account rather than taking advantage of a user? Doesn't really matter as I hold nothing against nodon.

    I could quote your little tirade out and tear it apart bit by bit, post chat and access logs, post paypal screens that prove you are back tracking as fast as you can, then ban your IP but I won't. Why? Because your posts tell a very telling tale of a total egomaniac who doesn't seem to be able to admit any wrong doing at all. Don't forget this doesn't just have to do with you making private forums, stealing PMs and taking our dough. It is also because you are a JERK. The supportive response we have received because of the desicion to relieve you of your post is astounding.

    I know you a lot better than you think I do. Don't try to fool people into thinking you don't still live with your parents. Your description of me makes me laugh btw

    And what is this new angle with me being greedy? Whats greedy about doing 100's of hrs of administration, paying $250 to host, giving you a $2600 "severence package" and not asking ANYTHING in return? You mention some crap about $12 a month on your little home page and you have nothing to offer!

    I am done with ya. You can try taking advantage of people all day long but it doesnt change anything. I feel sorry for those caught in your web. I have never asked anything of these people (you are very clear in stating ALL the ads and donations were YOUR idea and I hated that crap) and you continued to ask for donations after we had over 2k in the bank! How much were you paying at Hasweb? $100 a YEAR?? Nobody owes you anything. I said from day 1 that I would PERSONALLY host this thing till the end of time. You never liked that idea and now I know why. Do what you said you were gonna do. Go play on your forum. Leave us out of it.

    P.S No hard feelings nodon. You are welcome to post here any time and I consider your input to be a valuable commodity.

  7. #7
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    I feel the need to step in and say something.  I've talked in IM's and PM's with enough of you about this issue that it is clear to me that the thing that hurts us all is having to choose between two respected forum administrators.  I will be as forthright as ever and tell you all that I refuse to choose.  Both C and Des have earned my respect, though for drastically different reasons, and I'd like to elaborate to explain my Switzerland approach to this conflict.

    I have no doubt that many of you will remember the argument between Chris and me some time back.  It was just that, an argument.  What you didn't see was that we resolved things amicably behind the scenes.  Chris's explosive nature still rings with some, but so should his extreme effort with the hunt at its inception.  There is no denying that Chris was more visible when we were all at the thick of things last summer.  (That is NOT to say that C3 wasn't also working on our behalf.)  Chris is sharp, witty, and artistic, and has earned my respect for the deeper conversations we had.  Not once did he shy away from a subject I broached.  He thoughtfully considered all perspectives and with respect, I think, offered as clear an argument as he could offer me to defend his views.

    C3, on the other hand, is one of the most gentle creatures that has ever walked this earth.  He is quick to respond, eager to assist those of us less technically knowledgeable, and willing to befriend anyone who extends a hand.  He will not tell you what you want to hear, and has a great sense of humor.  I will confess that he has stayed up with me on many late nights, and most recently entertained me at 4:30am when I couldn't sleep.  Do not be fooled by his demeanor, however, or his desire for anonimity: C is equally sharp.  He is artistic in an entirely different way from Chris, and has demonstrated impeccable integrity at all times.  He
    earned my respect for all those reasons.

    To choose which one I trust more or like better is about the equivalent of me choosing a favorite daughter.  It just isn't going to happen.

    What this all boils down to, at least for me, is that neither can ever adequately prove to me that the other is the personification of evil.  I will continue to read this particular version of the forum only because it is more convenient for me to do so.  It is not meant to be a slight to Chris, or a victory for C3, whatsoever.  I hope neither of you take offense to my words.  I mean this in the warmest way possible.

    I think it's important to offer our sincere gratitude to both Chris and C3 for what they've done to offer us all an 'ecumenical' thinktank.  This community has become very important to us, and I think that's why we are all quietly shaking our heads.  It is impossible to comprehend, intelligent as we all are, that the familial atmosphere was just an illusion.  

    For my part, I believe both men to be remarkably talented.  I consider them both to be friends worthy of my deepest affection.  I wish you both well as you move past this, and thank you for all that you've done for me since I joined Tweleve.  

    And always, thank you for the opportunity to express myself freely.

  8. #8
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    Thanks for the nice words sweetie. You too are my friend.


    (This is not a response to spidey)
    This has somehow been MUTILATED into something that it isn't. Im not asking anyone to believe the things I've said. I'm not asking anyone to put their name on a petition and "pick sides" Any of you are free to do exactly as you wish and I hold no ill will for any of you. What I did, I DID. Thats all there is to it. Des is gone. Why? I told you. Do you believe me? Does it matter? I KNEW what I was getting myself into. I had hoped des would realize "Wow, they decided they weren't going to take it anymore" and maybe say sorry. That was some WISHFUL thinking. I stated nothing till he posted a mile long tirade against me claiming I'm a liar and a greedy bastard of sorts. I haven't even tried to DEFEND myself. Fact is, I'm at the end of my rope. I say that not as a threat but because I want you too know how I feel. Completely and totally mentally and emotionally exhausted...fact is whats done is done. Pick your sides, I don't care because I know what I stand for and I know who I am.

    cthree

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    I'm feeling really bad... and torn...

    I have spoken with both of these guys, and have had very intelectual conversations. They have both been very helpful to me getting my puzzles going. However tech-geek I may be, I will never be as good as these guys.

    I'm speechless. However! I will remain a neutral party. I don't like to take sides. I'm not good at arguing.

    sol

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    I agree. You don't have to take sides. There are always TWO SIDES to EVERY STORY. You just have to decide which site you want to post on....the most.

    I wish tweleve.org all the best. Like I said. Even rock bands break up. The Doobie Brothers broke up...I still like listening to Michael McDonald. (That dates me, lol, dude's hair is white now ;o)

    And I wish des's site all the good grace in the world. And I have a darn good feeling it will survive. Des is a VERY hard worker. I trust that. And I trust the PERSONAL testimonies of others who have had dealings with him that bode well re: his integrity. I don't know what the whole story is between des and cthree...but it sure nuff does look like it's OVER.

    I have no ill will toward cthree (you've never been a thorn in my side before), suelough (who I think is just great). I just can't support what happened here. I choose not to support it. In that regard, cthree does NOT get my vote.
    "When you created the book, you also created us."

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