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Thread: Decoding the Symbols of the HEST Language

  1. #21
    Doc
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    Shecrab,

    I used everything I could think of. I used the shapes. I used the words. I used the eclipse spells I used alphabets. I used numbers. I used the military time zone letters, and the first letters of the constellations. I used the constellation NAMES. I used the names of the forest creatures. I used the characters--the morse code proverbs. I used the chapter titles, and I turned the wheels with the angles of the shapes, and the corrections of the time zones from GMT--both of which produced both forward and backwards turns. That didn't work either. I even tried counting words between filled in letters in the BOS. I layered the wheels sun on moon, moon on sun. Sun earth moon, moon earth sun, earth sun moon, sun moon earth. Still, nothing.
    I'm still smiling.... That's a LOT of things you tried. I didn't realize someone else smacked their head around as much as I do when I get on the ball. LOL!

    I have very serious doubt that you will find anything beyond more paths to subjectivity and arbitrary definition. However, I'll cheerfully eat these words with a spork if you do find something. And I'll be first in line to congratulate you.
    LOL! I certainly don't want you or anyone else eating with those dreadful utensils. And, my ego doesn't require congratulations.

    If this gets anywhere, I'd much prefer you (and everyone else trying to read along and work on this) to be in line to get a ring. Don't give up yet--I think we're getting a lot warmer.

    Several ideas have intersected a little further and caused me to currently do a rethink that I wanted to pass along to the group at large.

    A cautionary note to myself and everyone else:

    If 'A Treasure's Trove' contains additional layers of the puzzle for mates and couples, then the clues were embedded since its release. It's very possible to collect and solve clues for these later stages of the puzzle that would have no bearing on solving the initial puzzles. And, I think that's exactly what I did.

    In SOTAD, he's already announced additional layers of the puzzle, and its clues are already present.

    I think I'm attempting to solve for the Eclipse spells rather than the Summon Ring and Create Ring spells.

    I think the wheels are on-the-money, but there's a simpler aspect to them that may come into play first.

    Consider the concept of the Earth wheel. It helps tie together clues elsewhere in the book.

    The Earth wheel is a 24-division wheel with 'noon' at the top and 'midnight' at the bottom. It's numbered +1, +2, +3....+11, 12, -11, -10, -9....-2, -1, 12. Ascending, then descending. The wheel is bisected at the two 12's. It's possible to insert values for 1 - 11, and I think it's going to be the 11 illustrated letters, but there's a much simpler aspect to it that comes into play first:

    If 'noon' is at the top, then the right half of the circle is '+', and the left half of the circle is '-'. If 'midnight' is at the top, the Left/right values are reversed: left = '+' and right = '-'.

    When you consider the rest of the book, there's a really easy way to see this being used: the sun or moon being at the top of a page.

    Page 14 has a moon at the top of its page. According to this Earth wheel concept, that gives us the key that left = '+' and right = '-'.

    Where would you use this?

    Seems to me it should be the page numbers.

    The sun and moon are at the top and bottom of the circles--the pages have moon or sun at top and page number at the bottom.

    According to this earth wheel concept, page 14 has a moon at the top, which sets the key as left = '+' and right = '-'. Page number 1 4 = +1, -4.

    I don't know how we would solve this anymore than I know how to solve the teardrop code with its +1, +2, etc.

    My point is that the concept of the wheel ties together some unsolved, seemingly unrelated clues in the book--the sun and moon at the top of a page and the page number--in a very simple, straightforward manner to create a puzzle.

    Which brings me to the current dilemma of the unsolved symbols of the Hest language.

    I started relating the example of the Earth wheel above to the problem of the unsolved Hest symbols, and that's when the lightbulb went off.

    The Earth wheel can have 11 values around it, and I very much believe it will, but it can function on a simpler level as being '+' or '-'.

    I think that might be exactly what the wheels are doing for the first layer of the puzzle.

    Consider a regular coordinate grid system.

    The top half of a circle = north = '+', the bottom half of a circle = south = '-'.
    The left half of a circle = west = '-', the right half of a circle = east = '+'.

    Setting the moon wheel gives us the key to these equivalents.

    For instance, if you know from the setting of the Sun Wheel that N/S = right half of a circle and E/W = left half of a circle, that's equivalent to N/S = '+' and E/W = '-'.

    Consider the components of the Hest symbols. We already know that some of the symbols are numbers: the symbols of the Moon code. This might be a hint that all of them are supposed to be numerical.

    Imagine breaking down a symbol by its components into individual numbers. We might be 7, 1, 4, 0, 22, etc.

    Does that make sense?

    On the very simplest level, what would be missing from a group of numbers like this?

    The mathematical operators.

    I think that's what the wheels might be providing for the first layer of the puzzle, and it would work like this:

    The setting of the Sun's wheel determines the position of the other two wheels. The Moon's wheel would have the same four potential settings:

    N/S = top half of circle = '+', E/W = bottom half of circle = '-'
    N/S = bottom half of circle = '-', E/W = top half of circle = '+'
    N/S = left half of circle = '-', E/W = right half of circle = '+'
    N/S = right half of circle = '+', E/W = left half of circle = '-'

    The earth wheel would either have 'noon' at top or 'midnight' at top setting giving two potential settings:

    Sun at top: Left = '-', right = '+'
    Moon at top: Left = '+', right = '-'

    The absolutely simplest thing to do--which is certainly the first thing I'd try once I understand the numeric values of the components--it to simply number the symbols.

    The first Hest symbol in the code would be Sun's Wheel setting '1'. The second Hest symbol would be Sun's wheel '2', the third symbol '3', etc. This would cause the Sun's wheel to 'click' one turn for each Hest symbol.

    You would set the Moon's Wheel accordingly.

    To set the Earth's Wheel, I would intitially try using the clues on the cover of the Spell book.

    LIGHT SPELLS LIGHT has a sun on top and DARK SPELLS DARK has a moon on top.

    The Sun's wheel is populated with 1's and 0's: new moons and full moons. So, if the setting hits on a full moon, that's 'light' and I would put the Sun on top for the Earth wheel setting. If the Sun's wheel hits on a new moon, that's 'dark', and I would put the moon on top (midnight) for the Earth wheel.

    You would collect the component symbols and add or substract them to arrive at a number for each symbol.

    I sincerely hope that makes sense. I'm suggesting the first use of the wheels isn't as complicated as what I was originally proposing.

    That being said, I started considering the bigger picture here. If these symbols are the input for the first layer of the puzzle, what would the input be for the Eclipse spells?

    At this early juncture, I think it might be the letters of the spell stanzas. They're already separated into quadrants of a circle. This is the layer that would require the Moon's wheel to be populated with the two alphabets and the Earth wheel to be populated with the illustrated letters. You wouldn't be inputting numbers into the wheels to get letters.

    We'd be using the wheels to convert the letters into numbers and from there into some sort of web address.

    A lot for me to think upon,

    Doc

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    Linden,

    LOL! It took me a long time to write that previous post, and I had already come to the same conclusion. I think this first layer of the puzzle IS simpler than what I originally proposed for the reasons stated.

    Keep on truckin',

    Doc

  3. #23
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    lol doc!!!
    I have a whole DRAWERFUL of sporks...they're more useful than chopsticks.

    One last question and then I'll quit bothering you and let you work on this:
    What will your threshhold of tolerance be for deciding this isn't working?
    You're pretty dogged when you get an idea--what will make you stop?
    For instance, you mentioned the 'additional' layer of solutions in ATT--for the mates. I don't believe there IS one, but there are a lot of people who don't agree--they (and you?) think there IS an entire other layer that no one has solved. (There is at least one trover who thinks the entire thing is a government conspiracy, too. )

    So what will make you decide, if you do, that enough is enough?
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    Doc,
    Here is a little something else to consider maybe in orienting these wheels.
    Light spells Light. Light = +, Light = sun. Maybe the sun wheel spells out L.I.G.H.T.
    Dark spells Dark. Dark = -, Dark = moon. Maybe the moon wheel spelss out D.A.R.K.
    Thank you Doc for sharing your wonderfull ideas with all of us. Something is going to click soon.


    Lindenmi
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  5. #25
    cw0909 is offline Good Twelever Platinum cw0909 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    thanks doc for getting the juices flowing again. like shecrab ive done
    a lot of wheels and combos. i tried a vairent of your idea, but not a clock
    per say i used the compass, and some of the wheels with the moon phase pg12.
    i dont understand your 52 wheel, as i would think there would be one 26 alpha wheel
    forward and a 26 alpha wheel backward, which maybe the layers we talk about.
    i do like the pg # idea. like many others will be thinking and trying out combos
    this weekend

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    I like 24 letter alphabet better cuz it goes more with the clock theme.
    1 forward and 1 reverse. 2 clocks so to say.


    Lindenmi
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    know the answer. Stupid is not asking.

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    Originally Posted by cw0909
    dar has cast the mold spell ,to make humans leave
    You just gave me an idea.
    If dar cast the mold spell then it is most likely the backwards alphabet or the - part. It will most likely occur at night or during the moon(moon wheel).
    That said then a grow spell will occur with the light or sun wheel and a forward alphabet or +. This might come in handy for Doc's wheels ideas.
    That leads me to the arise spell. This will be a + alphabet or an increasing one, arising.
    The descend spell will most likely use a descending alphabet. God I hope this works.
    The crevasse might use both half and half.


    Lindenmi
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  8. #28
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    Just a thought about these "mold/grow" associations:

    The MOLD occurred (in the story) during the SOLAR eclipse. Solar=sun.
    The apples were fine, (not moldy, IOW) during the LUNAR eclipse. lunar=moon.

    The GROW spell was never used. Only the MOLD spell.

    Just some additional thoughts here.
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  9. #29
    Doc
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    Linden,

    Match your description of the +alphabet and -alphabet to the layout of the bisected Moon Wheel I described.



    Doc

    PS--Shecrab, I'm not ignoring your question about when I should stop searching for something--I'm just doing some soul searching.

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    That's okay, Doc. I didn't expect a fast answer.

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