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Thread: The key cannot be buried in the national park: can it still be hidden there?

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    Puma Lion is offline Junior Twelever +1 Silver Puma Lion is on a distinguished road
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    Default The key cannot be buried in the national park: can it still be hidden there?

    Let's see if we can get some discussion going again. Here is a topic that doesn't necessarily require analysis of the book's clues, but we have all probably tried to think about it and come up with ideas.

    The key cannot be buried in the national park: can it still be hidden there?

    For instance, could the key be tucked into a crevice under an old stone bridge on the edge of the park? Are there any bridges outside of the national park?

    Are there other places you have considered as possible sites in or near the park? I think there's at least one old fire tower left. Could a key be hidden in or on that structure without breaking the rules?

    What do we know about the rules against (for instance) geocaching in the park that might also apply to the Fandango hunt?

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    thedawailey is offline Junior Twelever +1 Silver thedawailey is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Lion View Post
    Let's see if we can get some discussion going again. Here is a topic that doesn't necessarily require analysis of the book's clues, but we have all probably tried to think about it and come up with ideas.

    The key cannot be buried in the national park: can it still be hidden there?

    Are there other places you have considered as possible sites in or near the park? I think there's at least one old fire tower left. Could a key be hidden in or on that structure without breaking the rules?

    What do we know about the rules against (for instance) geocaching in the park that might also apply to the Fandango hunt?
    Well, in the back of the book, it says, "Nothing has been hidden or placed on private property; no monument or structure needs to be moved, altered or otherwise disturbed in any way," and that "the reader must obey all laws." Despite this, I've seen posts that suggest people have gone off the marked trails and possibly even dug holes in the park. When I was looking this up, I came across a number of articles about the problems Yellowstone is having with people looking for Forrest Fenn's gold, damaging the undergrowth, making unofficial trails, digging holes, and getting lost. One man died.

    It is against the law to leave any personal items in a National Park for longer than 24 hours except in designated areas, which I assume would be campgrounds where people stay for longer than 1 day. Does that mean it could be in a campground in Acadia? Traditional geocaching is banned because leaving a container hidden is considered littering and they have a "leave no trace" policy.

    I'd like to hear others' ideas on this too, and what your rationale is. I know some people feel it's in the park, others are adamant it couldn't be. When I visited the Town Hill Market last summer, owned by the Stockwell's sister, the employees there all felt it was at Sieur de Monts Spring, although they all admitted Pel has not shared any hints with them, and even though Sieur de Monts is squarely inside the park.

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    catherwood is offline Found the 11! Bronze catherwood is an unknown quantity at this point
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    The key is hidden, not buried.
    Nothing is hidden on private property.
    Therefore, the key is hidden on public property.

    The term 'public property' could cover all sorts of places, not just a national park. Is a shopping mall a public space or private property? Is a bank vault public, even though access is restricted? How about a sandy beach? (We have issues with beach access in California.) I wouldn't think any physical object would remain hidden for very long in a town square. Could it be inside a museum, hiding in plain sight?

    The speculation could be endless. I'm leaning towards there being a metaphorical key which will lead to a message on how to locate the actual key. A message could be hidden in an existing plaque, sign, monument, or other text on a wall which we could extract once we discover the key in the book, for example. Nothing is buried. Sure, you might want to stick your hand inside a hollow tree, but it sounds like the littering laws would make such a treasure illegal. And really, would you count on such a treasure remaining in place for twenty years?

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    thedawailey is offline Junior Twelever +1 Silver thedawailey is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherwood View Post
    The key is hidden, not buried.
    Nothing is hidden on private property.
    Therefore, the key is hidden on public property.

    The term 'public property' could cover all sorts of places, not just a national park. Is a shopping mall a public space or private property? Is a bank vault public, even though access is restricted? How about a sandy beach? (We have issues with beach access in California.) I wouldn't think any physical object would remain hidden for very long in a town square. Could it be inside a museum, hiding in plain sight?

    The speculation could be endless. I'm leaning towards there being a metaphorical key which will lead to a message on how to locate the actual key. A message could be hidden in an existing plaque, sign, monument, or other text on a wall which we could extract once we discover the key in the book, for example. Nothing is buried. Sure, you might want to stick your hand inside a hollow tree, but it sounds like the littering laws would make such a treasure illegal. And really, would you count on such a treasure remaining in place for twenty years?
    I agree and like your idea of a metaphorical key. I wondered about the securitiy of a physical place for such a long time. Add to you list of possibilities a post office box, perhaps with a combination to get into it. It would be safe from the weather and changing environment etc.

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    poe67 is offline Getting the hang of it. Copper poe67 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    I've always had the thought that it is at Sieur de Monts. Here is the worst part, I live in Bar Harbor and work less than two minutes from there and haven't had the time to search. Though I just learned something today. I know the owners of the Town Hill Market and never knew that she was Stockwell's sister.

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    thedawailey is offline Junior Twelever +1 Silver thedawailey is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by poe67 View Post
    I've always had the thought that it is at Sieur de Monts. Here is the worst part, I live in Bar Harbor and work less than two minutes from there and haven't had the time to search. Though I just learned something today. I know the owners of the Town Hill Market and never knew that she was Stockwell's sister.
    Last year when I visited Bar Harbor, I stopped in at the Town Hill Mkt to buy a copy of Fandango for a friend. I was aware the owner was a Stockwell sibling. The people working there that day said people come in all the time to ask about Fandango and, although they claimed the brothers had never dropped a hint about the location of the key, both employees felt it was at Sieur de Monts Spring.

    I still wonder about hiding the key in Acadia, though. On the NPS Acadia website, it states: Please note that geocaching with traditional physical caches is not permitted in the park. Fandango is not technically a geocache, but it fits the definition of a physical cache and in the book it says, "Participants must agree... to obey all laws while participating in the hunt." If it's against the law to geocache, they would have had to break the law to hide the key in the park, and we would have to break the law to find it. I'm keeping an open mind, but have doubts about it being in the park.

    I have played around with some ideas about where the key could be. A place that could be guaranteed not to be damaged or altered in any way over 13 years. Trees can fall down, weather can alter the landscape, trails can be re-routed. They would need something more permanent and secure. Once the book was written, they couldn't move the key if the surroundings changed.

    It will be very disappointing if this book proves to be unsolvable. We have only 1393 days left - someone needs to solve this!

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    cw0909 is offline Good Twelever Platinum cw0909 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    agreed dont think it is in the park proper. reading at the geocache site on
    how the EC works,got me to thinking about the story a little dif.

    no geocache, but there was a EarthCache, they are done by the park, see links
    the 1 at acadia was listed/Hidden : 03/23/2007 found in oct. 2016

    ACADIA: Mind-Blowing Geology
    https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/...lowing-geology
    found
    https://www.geocaching.com/seek/near...?u=ACAD_Ranger


    A little history ...
    In 2003 at a GSA conference, a GSA members suggested that the Society become involved in geocaching. A meeting was then held with Geocaching.com along with some land manager partners, such as the US National Park Service to consider a program that would meet land manager issues as well as develop a way to teach the geocaching community something about Earth science. Based on those discussions, a set of basic guidelines were developed which form the core of the current EarthCache publishing guidelines.

    The first EarthCache ("EarthCache I" [GCHFT2])was placed by user "geoaware" on 10 Jan. 2004 on a headland in New South Wales, Australia.Within the first year, more than 500 EarthCaches were published, and the there are now well over 20,500 sites in more than 167 countries (as of 1 Mar. 2016).Since the program started, more than 6.3 million people have logged that they have visited EarthCache sites, and the number is growing exponentially.
    EarthCache

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    Ashmunk23 is offline Needs to say Hello! Ashmunk23 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    We know that now leaving things in the park is forbidden, but does anyone know if in 2007 it was against the rules? Does anyone have evidence that the key is there all the time, or could it possibly be a set meeting time/location? I've struggled with the wording in the Rules Section- it states that "The reader does not need to be present on Mount Desert Island to solve the Riddle. The reader does need to be present on Mount Desert Island to recover the Golden Key." This leads me to believe that it isn't specific wording on a plaque or other monument because I feel like (without information external to the book) you would need to be there to decrypt the message.

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    catherwood is offline Found the 11! Bronze catherwood is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmunk23 View Post
    "The reader does not need to be present on Mount Desert Island to solve the Riddle. The reader does need to be present on Mount Desert Island to recover the Golden Key."
    I've always thought this is a multi-step process. The Riddle is in the book, not the park. Solving the Riddle might lead to a location with further information, but it need not be the Golden Key itself. That step could give you instructions for fetching The Key, possibly from a dropbox in town not the park. Of course, this is just my pet theory. If people only ask "is the Key safe?" they will be missing the real question of whether the CLUES are still safe.

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    thedawailey is offline Junior Twelever +1 Silver thedawailey is on a distinguished road
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    "The reader does not need to be present on Mount Desert Island to solve the Riddle. The reader does need to be present on Mount Desert Island to recover the Golden Key."

    Quote Originally Posted by catherwood View Post
    I've always thought this is a multi-step process. The Riddle is in the book, not the park. Solving the Riddle might lead to a location with further information, but it need not be the Golden Key itself. That step could give you instructions for fetching The Key, possibly from a dropbox in town not the park. Of course, this is just my pet theory. If people only ask "is the Key safe?" they will be missing the real question of whether the CLUES are still safe.
    It's funny how a simple statement can be interpreted so many different ways! My read is that the puzzle, the "Master Riddle" is contained within the book. You don't need to go to MDI for clues or to see actual places in order to solve the puzzle. It is essentially an armchair hunt - you can solve it from home with nothing more than the book. You can discover where the key is, but you have to go to MDI to get it if you want it. You can't simply "mail in" your solution and the first person who does, "wins," as is the case with true armchair hunts, where you never have to leave your house.

    Pel did say that if you think you have the right answer, but you went to the location and the key was not there, you can email them via their site. If your answer is correct (and the key has somehow been lost or someone took it and never contacted them) they will honor your "solution" and you will win the treasure. I'm sure if this ever happens, they will go to the site to verify the key is not where it is supposed to be before validating your claim. But in the end, you do have to leave your living room and go to MDI to retrieve the key. I also don't think they will verify that you have the right place before you go. You have to visit MDI and try to find the key first.

    I personally don't believe there will be additional clues on MDI, I think once you have the answer from the book, you will know exactly where to go and that the key will be within 100 feet of that location. Maybe the solution is a long/lat position, or the name of a memorial, a fountain, a trailhead or something, and then we "pace 40 south" to where the key is hidden. But again, this is just my opinion and certainly no better than anyone else's interpretation of where the key is and how it will be found. I'm still wandering aimlessly through the book, finding tempting clues, but unable to tie them together into a coherent answer!

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