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Thread: How Mr. Sanborn might encode K4

  1. #1
    dawnplayer8 is offline Junior Twelever +1 Bronze dawnplayer8 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Default How Mr. Sanborn might encode K4

    If I was encoding K4, this is one way to do it.

    1. Start with your solution:

    James Sanborn Kryptos-First citizen to unlock
    UTTAZQGFBGKQBDFFJGBLEGU
    swam across a point usually unknown by man.

    2. Break the solution into word groups of no more
    than 7 letters.

    JAMES
    SANBORN
    KRYPTOS
    FIRST TO (combine these two words into one word group)
    CITIZEN
    UNLOCK
    SWAM
    ACROSS
    A POINT
    USUALLY
    UNKNOWN
    BY MAN
    UTTAZQGFBGKQBDFFJGBLEGU (I will leave this portion complete
    and call it K5)

    3. Make a blank 97 letter upside down pyramid.

    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _
    *_ _ _
    *_ _
    *_

    4. Start with Sanborn and add to the first 7 spaces.

    S A N B O R N_ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _
    *_ _ _
    *_ _
    *_

    5. Make it more difficult by writing Sanborn backwards
    and switchin the O and R.

    N O R B N A S _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _
    *_ _ _
    *_ _
    *_

    5. Add FIRST TO, CITIZEN, and UNLOCK.

    N O R B N A S F I R S T T O
    C I T I Z E N U N L O C K
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _
    *_ _ _
    *_ _
    *_

    6. Add KRYPTOS to line 7.

    N O R B N A S F I R S T T O
    C I T I Z E N U N L O C K
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    *K R Y P T O S
    *_ _ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _
    *_ _ _
    *_ _
    *_

    7. Skip line 3 and add the other word groups
    except JAMES, UNKNOWN, and BY MAN.

    N O R B N A S F I R S T T O
    C I T I Z E N U N L O C K
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    S W A M A C R O S S _
    A P O I N T U S U A
    L L Y _ _ _ _ _ _
    *K R Y P T O S
    *_ _ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _
    *_ _ _
    *_ _
    *_

    8. Write UNKNOWN in line 8 and 9.

    N O R B N A S F I R S T T O
    C I T I Z E N U N L O C K
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    S W A M A C R O S S _
    A P O I N T U S U A
    L L Y _ _ _ _ _ _
    *K R Y P T O S
    *U N K N O W
    *N _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _
    *_ _ _
    *_ _
    *_

    9. Fill in the last 5 spaces with by man.

    N O R B N A S F I R S T T O
    C I T I Z E N U N L O C K
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    S W A M A C R O S S _
    A P O I N T U S U A
    L L Y _ _ _ _ _ _
    *K R Y P T O S
    *U N K N O W
    *N _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _
    *_ B Y
    *M A
    *N

    10. Add JAMES by placing the AJS (from the word JAMES)
    to Row 5 spaces 5-7.

    N O R B N A S F I R S T T O
    C I T I Z E N U N L O C K
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    S W A M A C R O S S _
    A P O I A J S N T U S U A
    L L Y _ _ _ _ _ _
    *K R Y P T O S
    *U N K N O W
    *N _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _
    *_ B Y
    *M A
    *N

    11. We will move N T U S U A to line 6 spaces 4-9.

    N O R B N A S F I R S T T O
    C I T I Z E N U N L O C K
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    S W A M A C R O S S _
    A P O I A J S _ _ _
    L L Y N T U S U A
    *K R Y P T O S
    *U N K N O W
    *N _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _
    *_ B Y
    *M A
    *N

    12. Add the letter M (from JAMES) to Row 1 space 1,
    move the letters N and C (first letters of Row 2 and 3)
    down one row.

    M O R B N A S F I R S T T O
    N I T I Z E N U N L O C K
    C _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    S W A M A C R O S S _
    A P O I A J S _ _ _
    L L Y N T U S U A
    *K R Y P T O S
    *U N K N O W
    *N _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _
    *_ B Y
    *M A
    *N

    13. Add the E (from JAMES) to Row 2 space 1, move
    the N and C down one more place, move S W A M A C R O S S
    over one space.


    M O R B N A S F I R S T T O
    E I T I Z E N U N L O C K
    N _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    C S W A M A C R O S S
    A P O I A J S _ _ _
    L L Y N T U S U A
    *K R Y P T O S
    *U N K N O W
    *N _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _
    *_ B Y
    *M A
    *N

    14. Scramble the words FIRST TO and UNLOCK by doing
    a three way swap. Move the C from Row 2 space 12 to
    Row 1 space 13. Move the T from Row 1 space 13 to Row
    2 space 8. Move the U from Row 2 space 8 to Row 2
    space 12.

    M O R B N A S F I R S T C O
    E I T I Z E N T N L O U K
    N _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    C S W A M A C R O S S
    A P O I A J S _ _ _
    L L Y N T U S U A
    *K R Y P T O S
    *U N K N O W
    *N _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _
    *_ B Y
    *M A
    *N

    15. Do another three way swap. Move I from Row 1 space 9
    to Row 1 space 11. Move the S from Row 1 space 11 to Row
    1 space 12. Move the T form Row 1 space 12 to Row 1
    space 9.

    M O R B N A S F T R I S C O
    E I T I Z E N T N L O U K
    N _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    C S W A M A C R O S S
    A P O I A J S _ _ _
    L L Y N T U S U A
    *K R Y P T O S
    *U N K N O W
    *N _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _
    *_ B Y
    *M A
    *N

    16. Move the R from Row 1 space 10 to Row 3 space 8.

    M O R B N A S F T _ I S C O
    E I T I Z E N T N L O U K
    N _ _ _ _ _ _ R _ _ _ _
    C S W A M A C R O S S
    A P O I A J S _ _ _
    L L Y N T U S U A
    *K R Y P T O S
    *U N K N O W
    *N _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _
    *_ B Y
    *M A
    *N

    17. Swap the K and N in UNLOCK.

    M O R B N A S F T _ I S C O
    E I T I Z E N T K L O U N
    N _ _ _ _ _ _ R _ _ _ _
    C S W A M A C R O S S
    A P O I A J S _ _ _
    L L Y N T U S U A
    *K R Y P T O S
    *U N K N O W
    *N _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _
    *_ B Y
    *M A
    *N

    18. Scramble the word SWAM by moving the S from
    Row 4 space 2 to Row 4 space 6. Move the A from
    Row 4 space 6 to Row 4 space 5. Move the M from
    Row 4 space 5 to Row 4 space 3. Move the W from
    Row 4 space 3 to Row 4 space 2.

    M O R B N A S F T _ I S C O
    E I T I Z E N T K L O U N
    N _ _ _ _ _ _ R _ _ _ _
    C W M A A S C R O S S
    A P O I A J S _ _ _
    L L Y N T U S U A
    *K R Y P T O S
    *U N K N O W
    *N _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _
    *_ B Y
    *M A
    *N

    19. Scramble the word across and unknown. Move
    the C Row 4 space 7 to Row 4 space 9. Move the O
    Row 4 space9 to Row 3 space 12. Move the S Row
    4 space 11 toRow 8 space 5. Move the O from Row
    8 space 5 to Row 5 space 10.

    M O R B N A S F T _ I S C O
    E I T I Z E N T K L O U N
    N _ _ _ _ _ _ R _ _ _ O
    C W M A A S _ R C S _
    A P O I A J S _ _ O
    L L Y N T U S U A
    *K R Y P T O S
    *U N K N S W
    *N _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _
    *_ B Y
    *M A
    *N

    20. Scramble the word usually. Move the L from Row
    6 space 1 to Row 4 space 11. Move the L from Row 6
    space 2 to Row 11 space 1. Move the Y from Row 6
    space 3 to Row 10 space 3.

    M O R B N A S F T _ I S C O
    E I T I Z E N T K L O U N
    N _ _ _ _ _ _ R _ _ _ O
    C W M A A S _ R C S L
    A P O I A J S _ _ O
    _ _ _ N T U S U A
    *K R Y P T O S
    *U N K N S W
    *N _ _ _ _
    *_ _ Y _
    *L B Y
    *M A
    *N

    21. Scramble KRYPTOS. Move the R from Row 7 space
    2 to Row 6 space 1. Move the Y from Row 7 space 3 to
    Row 7 space 2. Move the P from Row 7 space 4 to Row 7
    space 7. Move the T Row 7 space 5 to Row 8 space 5.
    Move the S from Row 7 space 7 to Row 7 space 9. Move
    the W from Row 8 space 6 to Row 9 space 2.


    M O R B N A S F T _ I S C O
    E I T I Z E N T K L O U N
    N _ _ _ _ _ _ R _ _ _ O
    C W M A A S _ R C S L
    A P O I A J S _ _ O
    _ _ _ N T U S U A
    *K Y _ _ S O P
    *U N K N S T
    *N W _ _ _
    *_ _ Y _
    *L B Y
    *M A
    *N

    22. Scramble UNKNOWN more. Move the U from Row 8
    space 1 to Row 9 space 2. Move the K Row 8 space 3
    to Row 9 space 1. Move the N Row 9 space 1 to Row 9
    space 3.

    M O R B N A S F T _ I S C O
    E I T I Z E N T K L O U N
    N _ _ _ _ _ _ R _ _ _ O
    C W M A A S _ R C S L
    A P O I A J S _ _ O
    _ _ _ N T U S U A
    *K Y _ _ S O P
    *_ N _ N S T
    *K W N _ _
    *U _ Y _
    *L B Y
    *M A
    *N

    23. Scramble MAN by swapping the A and N.

    M O R B N A S F T _ I S C O
    E I T I Z E N T K L O U N
    N _ _ _ _ _ _ R _ _ _ O
    C W M A A S _ R C S L
    A P O I A J S _ _ O
    _ _ _ N T U S U A
    *K Y _ _ S O P
    *_ N _ N S T
    *K W N _ _
    *U _ Y _
    *L B Y
    *M N
    *A

    24. Next encode half of the letters that we have so far
    in our solution. These are the letters we will encode.

    M O R B N A S _ T _ I S C _
    _ I _ _ _ E _ T K _ _ _ N
    N _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ W _ A A _ _ R C _ L
    _ P O _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ U _ U A
    *K Y _ _ _ _ _
    *_ N _ N _ _
    *_ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _
    *L B Y
    *M N
    *_


    Use the following substitution code:

    A B CDE FGH I JKLM NOP QRS TUV WXYZ
    WA BAT ONL X FIHU KZC YVR GQE JSPM

    U Z V D K W R _ L _ X R B _
    _ X _ _ _ T _ L I _ _ _ K
    K _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ J _ W W _ _ V B _ H
    _ C Z _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ Q _ Q W
    *I P _ _ _ _ _
    *_ K _ K _ _
    *_ _ _ _ _
    *_ _ _ _
    *H D P
    *U K
    *_

    25. Add the other letter that were left plain.

    U Z V D K W R F L _ X R B O
    E X T I Z T N L I L O U K
    K _ _ _ _ _ _ R _ _ _ O
    C J M W W S _ V B S H
    A C Z I A J S _ _ O
    R _ _ N T Q S Q W
    *I P _ _ S O P
    *_ K _ K S T
    *K W N _ _
    *U _ Y _
    *H D P
    *U K
    *A

    26. Add K5,the letters UTTAZQGFBGKQDFFJGBLEGU.

    U Z V D K W R F L U X R B O
    E X T I Z T N L I L O U K
    K T T A Z Q G R F B G O
    C J M W W S K V B S H
    A C Z I A J S Q B O
    R D F N T Q S Q W
    * I P F J S O P
    * G K B K S T
    * K W N L E
    * U G Y U
    * H D P
    * U K
    * A

    27. Next turn the pyramid sideways with the O at the top.

    O
    B K
    R U O
    X O G H
    U L B S O
    L I F B B W
    F L R V Q Q P
    R N G K S S O T
    W T Q S J Q S S E
    K Z Z W A T J K L U
    D I A W I N F B N Y P
    V T T M Z F P K W G D K
    Z X T J C D I G K U H U A
    U E K C A R

    28. Or you can put these letters in this format:

    O B K R
    U O X O G H U L B S O L I F B B W F L R V Q Q P R N G K S S O
    T W T Q S J Q S S E K Z Z W A T J K L U D I A W I N F B N Y P
    V T T M Z F P K W G D K Z X T J C D I G K U H U A U E K C A R

    29. I welcome any comments.

  2. #2
    TreeFinder is offline Junior Twelever Bronze TreeFinder is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Default 11:49 Am

    My crazy response, whether the order of UTTAZQGFBGKQDFFJGBLEGU is correct or not is that
    UTTAZQGFBGKQDFFJGBLEGU
    is
    UT TA ZQGF BG KQDFFJ GBLEGU
    which is
    A M X I TIME IMI
    which is
    11 AM TIME 110001 (32+16+0+0+0+1)
    very close to
    11:49 AM almost noon

  3. #3
    dawnplayer8 is offline Junior Twelever +1 Bronze dawnplayer8 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Default Is K5 11:49AM?

    Hi TreeFinder,

    Could you show how you came up with your answer? I believe I
    have the right order.

    My first thought was that K5 would be a time and a date. I was
    thinking that UT could be Universal Time. Perhaps you need to
    dig at a certain time and a certain date when the light is shining
    through KRYPTOS. We have already been told that T is your position.

  4. #4
    TreeFinder is offline Junior Twelever Bronze TreeFinder is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Default

    UT TA ZQGF BG K QDFF JGBLE GU
    which is
    A M X I T IM 3 I
    which is
    AM 11 T IM 3 I
    maybe said as Dr. Seus would say ... in a child's way - imagine three voices T,month,and day
    am 11
    T I am
    3 I

    This is the T as 11-3 November 3? where does this date come from 1990 or 1922?

    The key is in the text of my other kryptos posts. The key is deterministic, the reading of the text is interpretative - welcome to the palimpsest.

  5. #5
    dawnplayer8 is offline Junior Twelever +1 Bronze dawnplayer8 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Default Different way to solve K5

    Hi,

    I came up with a different solution to K5.

    1. Get the K5 letters off of Kryptos starting from the end of the bottom row
    and go up. This yields:

    GDTGFTBFAULJZEQKGQBFBUG

    2. Use the keywords PALIMPSECT, ABSCISSA, and BATON

    3. Decode through a Vigenere tableau.

    P A L I M P S E C T A B S C I S S A B A T O N
    G D T G F T B F A U L J Z E Q K G Q B F B U G
    R D I Y T E J B I B L I H C I S O Q A F I G T

    4. This gives us:

    RID YET JOQ IS BIBLICA(L) FIGHT

    I added the extra L, but I think this takes us to the next layer, K6.

  6. #6
    rdshackleford's Avatar
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    Default

    Are you mocking this forum?

    It's not a place, it's a yearning. It's not a race, it's a journey.

  7. #7
    dawnplayer8 is offline Junior Twelever +1 Bronze dawnplayer8 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Default

    Hi Rusty,

    I thought I was on the right track to solve Kryptos,
    however, if the administrators of this website wish
    to delete any or all of my posts- Please do so.

  8. #8
    rdshackleford's Avatar
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    Default

    Just ignore me. I was just feeling silly when I posted that pic. I don't know why this thread reminded me of that scene.

    I do think it is kindof out there talking about K5 and K6. However, I don't wish to quell any original ideas here. Just looking for a laugh.

    -Rusty

    It's not a place, it's a yearning. It's not a race, it's a journey.

  9. #9
    dawnplayer8 is offline Junior Twelever +1 Bronze dawnplayer8 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Default message in the morse code

    I don't know if this has been revealed before since I am just working on my own. The morse code messages can be aligned like this:

    -----D
    ----WIV
    ----HGI
    ----AER
    ----TTT
    ----IAU
    ----SLA
    ----YILS
    ---LONLH
    ---UUTYA
    ---CREID
    ---IPRNO
    ---DOPVW
    ---MSRIF
    ---EIESO
    ---MTTIR
    S_OIABC
    ORROTLE
    SQYNUES

    Please note that the T's line up, and the bottom says:

    S___ABC
    ORROT__
    __YN____

    or SORRY NOT ABC. Perhaps this is Mr. Sanborns humourous comment on using morse code instead of alphabet letters.

    Please note I used "What" instead of just "T" is your position.

    Sorry this does not line up very well. If the administrators can align and highlight letters, I would appreciate it.

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