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Thread: LATEST ADVANCED HINT / CLUE! 31st March 2009

  1. #91
    APPRENTICE's Avatar
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    Default numerical substitution cipher, Saturn = 7 or 9

    As I have posted a few times before, the presence of a set of 10 symbols (the planetary glyphs) is a strong indication for a numerical substitution cipher. Each glyph would represent a digit 0-9, from which any number or numbers can then be made.

    There are a number of ways to progress this from interesting plausibility to a usable fact. One such way would be to use logic to guess a key, and then have this guess confirmed by the book or a clue. Working in reverse, the book or a clue could match a number to a symbol, and then we could reverse engineer the key using logic. Either way, the most important first step is to confirm that the 10 glyphs are indeed a numerical substitution cipher, and this clue does that.

    The most obvious logic based guess for a key would be to use a heliocentric or geocentric model combined with some form of astronomical data.

    A Heliocentric distance of planets from Sun chart gives: Sun=0, Mer=1, Ven= 2, Earth or Moon = 3 or 4, Mars=5, Jup.=6, Saturn = 7 etc.

    A Geocentric time of apparent orbit around Earth chart gives the conventional: Earth=0, Moon=1, Mer.=2, Ven.=3, Sun=4, Mars=5, Jup.=6, Saturn = 7 etc.

    A Geocentric average magnitude chart gives: Earth=0, Sun=1, Moon=2, Ven.=3, Jup=4, Mars=5, Mer.=6, Saturn = 7 etc.

    A Geocentric chart of the planets average distance from Earth gives: Earth = 0, Moon=1, Ven.=2, Mars=3, Mer.=4, Sun=5, Jup.=6, Saturn = 7 etc.


    Notice that while the values of the rest of the planets changed, the value of Saturn was 7 in all four of them. If our astronomy based key guess were to be correct we would therefore expect the value of the Saturn glyph to be 7, and might also expect this as a logical point for confirmation.

    In the Maranatha book there are only 2 Saturn glyphs shown which may be a substitute for 7, "AS TWICE SHOWN HIDDEN". The words "as twice shown" may serve a double role here indicating a intended value of 77 instead of 14. MARANATHA = 77 = "THE WORTH OF THIS BOOK"

    So it would seem at first blush like both the numerical substitution idea and the astronomy guess/Saturn = 7 idea have been confirmed in dramatic fashion. If this is the case I would argue strongly for the conventional Geocentric chart key, as the fact that the Earth and Moon are constantly trading places relative to distance from the Sun kills the Heliocentric model, and other ideas seem too obscure.

    But in this puzzle false solutions must constantly be watched out for. "THIS BOOK" was never specified as referring to MARANATHA, and the value of "THIS BOOK" = 99. The numerical substitution value of Saturn could therefore be 9 using the same logic as before. If this is the case then the challenge becomes to reverse engineer a key using logic with the advanced knowledge that Saturn = 9.
    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    GeneSIS -- ISaIah -- Revelations +++++++++ GOD IS!
    When you reach the end of the tail lookout for the teeth of the biting head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by APPRENTICE View Post
    If this is the case then the challenge becomes to reverse engineer a key using logic with the advanced knowledge that Saturn = 9.
    The first random idea that popped into my head would be to give numbers to planet glyphs based on frequency occurrence. In other words Saturn = 9 because it occurs the least frequently and 0 would then equal the most frequent glyph.

    Does anyone have planet glyph frequency counts handy? Preferably total number of each glyph in book and total number of each glyph against a black background (black = nothing?).
    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    GeneSIS -- ISaIah -- Revelations +++++++++ GOD IS!
    When you reach the end of the tail lookout for the teeth of the biting head.

  3. #93
    Oz
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    WICEIT - Poison Merchant in the Realm of Albion.

    Allakhazam.com: Dark Age of Camelot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oz View Post
    WICEIT - Poison Merchant in the Realm of Albion.

    Allakhazam.com: Dark Age of Camelot
    "Easily traps one OZ & larger nuggets"

    Quote Originally Posted by astreeturover View Post

    ASTWICEIT

    CITE WAITS
    Free is the best deal!

    "The Scarlet Cloud Approaches"
    "Time is of ten a one-way street"
    ..........Go 5 X 5..........

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    Quote Originally Posted by astreeturover View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Oz View Post
    WICEIT - Poison Merchant in the Realm of Albion.

    Allakhazam.com: Dark Age of Camelot
    "Easily traps one OZ & larger nuggets"

    Quote Originally Posted by astreeturover View Post

    ASTWICEIT

    CITE WAITS
    WAITS -> WEIGHTS

    OZ = OUNCE = UNCIA

    UNCIAL style writing on RLC parchments



    M

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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by astreeturover View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Oz View Post
    WICEIT - Poison Merchant in the Realm of Albion.

    Allakhazam.com: Dark Age of Camelot
    "Easily traps one OZ & larger nuggets"

    Quote Originally Posted by astreeturover View Post

    ASTWICEIT

    CITE WAITS
    WAITS -> WEIGHTS

    OZ = OUNCE = UNCIA

    UNCIAL style writing on RLC parchments



    M
    The Book Of The Sacred Magic Of ... - Google Book Search

    CAPRA = GOAT = OZ = OUNCE = UNCIA

    M

  7. #97
    linz's Avatar
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    Hi Apprentice,

    I like where you are going with this it feels right.

    For Numbers for the planets have you looked at the ones assigned to them in Astrology?

    Sun - 1 and 8
    Moon - 2
    Mercury - no number assigned
    Venus -3
    Mars - 5
    Jupiter - 6
    Saturn -4
    Uranus - 22
    Neptune- 7 and 11

    Although i see that some are assigned more than one number just to confuse matters.
    Linz

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    Quote Originally Posted by astreeturover View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by synchronicity View Post

    I know there was talk of the gordian KNOT etc..but is there another NOT or Knot that could be used..
    I think the word not is a clue..
    and then we have the word NOTHING ..which comes up a lot also ..this word nothing containing the word NOT.
    Quote Originally Posted by synchronicity View Post

    maybe it's PAN
    Hi Sync,

    How are you, and the family? And the weather? And the painting?

    Does this give you, or M, any ideas (related to the coincidence of opposites)?:


    PAN: "a combining form meaning “all,” occurring originally in loanwords from Greek (panacea; panoply), but now used freely as a general formative (panleukopenia; panorama; pantelegraph; pantheism; pantonality), and esp. in terms, formed at will, implying the union of all branches of a group"

    pan definition | Dictionary.com




    Quote Originally Posted by astreeturover View Post

    p. 50 – I Tego Arcana Dei
    Code:
    A S . T W I C E . I T . I S .
    S H O W N . H I D D E N . T O
    . P R O V E . T H E . W O R T
    H . O F . T H I S . B O O K .

    Quote Originally Posted by astreeturover View Post
    The Coming of The Great God PAN

    "Pan meaning "One," and to this day, Pan means one or all."

    PAN = UNION = ONE = UNUS = UNCIA = OUNCE

    M

  9. #99
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    Default Sun = 0

    Quote Originally Posted by linz View Post
    Hi Apprentice,

    I like where you are going with this it feels right.

    For Numbers for the planets have you looked at the ones assigned to them in Astrology?

    Sun - 1 and 8
    Moon - 2
    Mercury - no number assigned
    Venus -3
    Mars - 5
    Jupiter - 6
    Saturn -4
    Uranus - 22
    Neptune- 7 and 11

    Although i see that some are assigned more than one number just to confuse matters.
    Hello linz,

    Over the years of this puzzle I have seen a good deal of posts relating various aspects of astrology, alchemy, cabala etc. to the planets and numbers. The problem is that, although highly interesting, they do not tend to agree with each other. Generally speaking, the more obscure and/or variable something is the more confirmation would then be required to have confidence in it.

    One wonders if other clues have given similar hints as this months clue. Off the top of my head, one of the clues said something like "Where no planet is found it is naught to be thought of". Keeping things super simple, we could make a guess that this implies that the Moon or more probably the Sun glyph should = 0, and of course the Sun glyph itself is like a 0. If this were correct it would be nice, as we would then have the set bookended by the 2 S's, Sun = 0 ........... Saturn = 9.

    Although more tenuous, perhaps we can pull more confirmation of this out of the text. "SO FROM NOTHING IS THE KEY REVEALED, AS THE TREE GROWS SUCH DOES THE LEAD BECOME GOLD". If we let NOTHING = NO THING, and then equate "thing" to the concept of solidity, this can solve for the Sun. The Sun is the only stand alone object in the solar system which is not solid anywhere or in anyway. The gas giants all have Earth sized rocky cores, comets have rock or metal cores etc.
    And speaking of alchemy, LEAD = Saturn, Gold = Sun, so there is an obvious congruence starting to form here.
    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    GeneSIS -- ISaIah -- Revelations +++++++++ GOD IS!
    When you reach the end of the tail lookout for the teeth of the biting head.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by APPRENTICE View Post
    The value of AST is 40, which is associated with concepts like "generations" and important long periods of time (e.g. 40 years in the wilderness).
    How true.

    And, the values of 40, 41, 42 end the core puzzle (Pig Pen, Image, Oroborous).

    "AST wice it is shown hidden to pr OVE
    the worth of this b OOK. "

    A stwiceitisshownhiddent O provetheworthofthisboo K

    .......... Curious about Douglas Adams' "42" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Answer_...thing_.2842.29
    Free is the best deal!

    "The Scarlet Cloud Approaches"
    "Time is of ten a one-way street"
    ..........Go 5 X 5..........

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