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Thread: this is likely a turning Grill cypher

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    happyhunting's Avatar
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    Default this is likely a turning Grill cypher

    the colors in this 5x5 could be a key to a turning grill cypher. Since there are 6 cloors, this could be the key for 6 token locations.

    Anybody else had this idea?

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    Hunnytree's Avatar
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    I wish. Actually I have made a couple of grille cipher templates from this grid.

    What I discovered, and you will, too, is that the turns don't work. A turning grille cipher will turn 90 degrees each turn. Each turn should uncover new territory, new characters until you have completed four turns / 360 degrees.

    It just doesn't work with this set of blacked out holes. The grille ciphers I've seen have ONE character per hole. But this grille takes in a series of characters, then when turned, they overlap on themselves.

    Once I put the grille template on a plain piece of paper and drew an outline of what it would uncover with each turn. Like I said, pretty much overlaps on itself...and that should not happen.

    I've got two of 'em I'll send ya. One is sized the same as the grid on pg 86,,,the other the same as the one in the begIinning of the book.

    Let me know if you do better with it. I'd love to hear.
    "When you created the book, you also created us."

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    Fenix's Avatar
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    When I first saw this grid I thought it was most likely similar to a lookup table for a cipher. I thought one of our ciphers would use all of the letters contained in the squares except for those that were blacked out. I realize this is still possible but it seems a bit unlikely by the placements of the blacks.

    I also like the idea of some sort of grille cipher but I haven't been able to make that work either. I have even been playing with it in respect to the grid on pg 16 looking at the colors on pg 16 for the blacked out boxes on pg 86. With the boxes as they are placed you would get something like Green, Red, Yellow, Red, Green, Green, Yellow, Blue.

    Another thought that I had was the blacked out spaces may produce a short message if a keyword is placed in the box followed by the rest of the alphabet. Something like this

    D_R_E_A_M
    B_C_F_G_H
    I_J_K_L_N
    O_P_S_T_U
    V_W_X_Y_Z

    DRAGHOPS

    This example obviously yields nothing useful but I thought it better illustrated the idea. I would love to hear some random ideas whether they work or not. I think we may have to do some group brainstorming on several aspects of this puzzle. Even the ideas that do not work may spark some productive thoughts and conversation.

    fenix

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    fenix,,,some discussion for you to check out, if you have not already....

    http://tweleve.org/forum/viewtopic.p...ng+grille#1828

    I will be interested in your comments.

    Regards,
    Hunnytree
    "When you created the book, you also created us."

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    cthree's Avatar
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    One of the many little "things" i have noticed that im really not sure of but here goes:

    I liked the idea that a user posted a few days ago (perch?) of a 13 letter keyword arranged as a diamond in the 5x5. Things like Pickensrooter, Kootenstoopit, and YorahKnothole. I put YorahKnothole in a diamond pattern and filled int he unused letters of the alphabet (-Q) from top to bottom left to right like so-

    BCYDF
    GORAI
    HKNOT
    JHOLK
    MPERS

    Take the blacked out letters and get:

    BCDAIJHO

    anagram to:

    JACOB HID

    that phrase only appears once in the bible. Genesis 35:4...

    as he hides something under an Oak tree.

    Intersting? Yes.

    Clue? dunno. :P

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    Cthree--are you going to turn the grille (or the diamond) and get the other letters? I wanna know what Jacob hid.


    The interesting thing about this darn grille is that it could be used in different ways, which implies that it will be used in different ways. Maybe 13 ways.

    Just as an example, I'm looking at the 17 un-blackened squares. There's lots of 17's in this book, such as the 17 on page 38. I've been trying to apply the 42 notes of 'Twinkle twinkle Little Star' in some fashion that decodes part of Ye Nomen, and I've seen some intriguing stuff that includes 17.

    42 minus 17 equals 25, for example.

    On page 86, excluding the title word HE, and beginning with "....dreampt",

    there are 119 words on this page by my count. That's 17 x 7.

    So, taking every 17th word : The, Out, Could, Singing, Mouths, Repeated, Understand.

    That's 42 letters. Hmmm. Maybe a coincidence.


    Then, of course, I also looked at every 7th word (17 of those):

    'side the strands his to her but as began to in like moon cause over tell understand'.

    Putting the first letter of each of those 17 words into the 5x5 on page 86 might be revealing. Eight letters from somewhere would have to be found to plug into the black squares, probably. Taking the first letters of those 17 words would leave 50 letters left over, enough for two 5x5 grids.

    I wish there'd been 68 letters in those 17 words, instead of 67. That would have filled 4 of the 5x5's on page 86. Just one piece nary.

    A full letter count of page 86 might be revealing. I'm gonna work on this today.

    Perchprism

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