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Thread: How many levels are there?

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    meaner simikkles's Avatar
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    Question How many levels are there?

    Tired of all the theories. Maybe we all need to agree on how many different levels this treasure hunt contains and why. By levels, we mean stages or progressions to solve to get a silver eagle.Some questers have come up with amazingly complex ( and crazy) theories. But what do we KNOW??

    According to the book page xix:" Once you have correctly answered all twenty questions for that chapter the treasure map for that chapter will be made available to you. Arrange the keys from the CHAPTER in the correct ORDER and submit your answer." Simple , right??

    Page xxii: " Be aware- contained in the Book, on the website and at the sponsor's website there are additional clues which will lead to the correct order the keys need to be placed in." Still not difficult- we figured that the other clues would do this.

    TEAM MEANER SAYS 3 levels for a silver eagle because that's all the book says:
    1. Solving chapter trivia questions
    2. Using clues in book, website & sponsor's website for key order on map.
    3. Placing keys in correct order( and being the first to do so) will get you a chance at the silver eagle

    THAT'S IT! Team Meaner believes that everyone is overthinking & over analyzing every bit of info. Maybe we all need to step back & just plain start over!!!!! We have decided to do just that.

    How many levels do YOU believe there are to get a silver eagle ???? Be specific and show your rational for why you believe what you believe!
    "We may not be first, but at least we are not last!" Meaner Simikkles RULE!

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    Lobster's Avatar
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    " 3. Placing keys in correct order( and being the first to do so) will get you a chance at the silver eagle"

    This is completely impossible without instructions, because the creative/logical/rational mind using "the book, the website, the sponsors websites" can rationalize the ordering of 20 keys in hundreds of thousands of possible combinations.

    Taking a chunk of text and saying "maybe key 19 goes here, and 8 here, and 3 here, etc" is a completely useless task *even if you know where to look*. Lady Lobster and I have tried -- and that's using all sorts of stuff that we thought was corroborating evidence for order.

    I can rationalize equally probable sequences all over the place. We don't even know if the sequence is mathematical, logical, representative, based on the chapter answers for each key, based on the chapter questions, or themes, etc etc. How on earth do you stick "5" in a sequence when you don't even know what TYPE of sequence you're looking for?

    Then throw in the possibility that things are flipped, inverted, reversed, atbashed, encoded, "divided into parts", "divided into sequences", omega-keyed, etc, and EVEN if you DO somehow miraculously fathom an expected key order, there is no guarantee that it's the right solution, because it might be what you have backwards, or partially backwards, or shifted, or who knows what else.

    So, we HAVE to assume that there are directions hidden somewhere that explains precisely what we are to do. The winner will have to find these directions.

    There is simply no other way to complete this task without directions. You cannot make sense out of noise without a prescribed method unless you make an extremely large number of guesses and get very lucky.

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    And no, I have not found a single thing that I would consider to be "unambiguous directions" for solving C1's key order.

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    steve1002 is offline Junior Twelever Bronze steve1002 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobster View Post
    And no, I have not found a single thing that I would consider to be "unambiguous directions" for solving C1's key order.
    With all due respect to your incredible talents in this game, I have. Actually, we all have.
    This is the quote:

    "The ghost of Cooper past holds your Omega key."

    The Omega is the last. Not the first, not in the middle, not around a corner. This couldn't be any more "unambiguous" than if you hit me in the head with a baseball bat.

    That said, whatever the rest of the quote means is up for intepretation to some degree.

    Find whatever "the ghost of cooper past" means and put that into the 20th position on the map. Done.

    It's that simple. Why oh why would it be any more complicated?

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    Lobster's Avatar
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    The Omega is the last. Not the first, not in the middle, not around a corner. This couldn't be any more "unambiguous" than if you hit me in the head with a baseball bat.
    Then allow me to hit you in the head with a baseball bat....

    This clue, as you point out, could mean just that: The last key. Key #20 of 20.

    The reason this clue is ambiguous (apart from the "ghost of cooper past" part, which is far from unambiguous itself), is that there is a second good definition for "omega key".

    We are told that clues are to be found "in the book". Not "clues are to be found in chapter 1".

    Chapter 9 defines "omega key" very specifically to be one of three "keys" that you're supposed to use as part of a process to find something. What makes this "key" particularly interesting is that its use also spans Chapter 10 -- something that few clues in the book do. It makes these three keys stand out as something that perhaps have "wider use".

    So when I see "omega key", a specific term used "in the book", I think of that chapter 9/10 use of "omega key", not the 20th key as being an equally probable interpretation. There aren't any "delta keys" in the book, or "alpha keys". Just an "omega key", and that term just happens to pop up in a chapter 1 clue.

    So no, this clue is not unambiguous. Omega key could be referring to the 20th key OR one of three "keys" used to solve for the 20 sequence number keys.

    We are not told whether the clues that we care about are restricted to chapter 1, or whether chapters 2-12 also contain relevant solving clues. We cannot ignore the rest of the book until we find evidence that we're restricted to chapter 1's text.

    Next batter...

  6. #6
    Doc
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    Steve,

    To reiterate something Lobster is pointing out--the clues are interactive.

    You don't solve 'Look for the jeep' without using a clue from another location, namely the optic cross clues for chapter 1. You don't solve the '12:00 high' clue without knowledge of the Invisible Ink clue. These clues interact with each other.

    In the same fashion, the Invisible Ink clue has to interact with the concept of the three keys in chapter 9 to be properly solved.

    The Invisible Ink clue as well as the concept of Chapter 9's three keys are NOT specific to a single chapter. They're clues for a global mechanism.

    If you want the clues that ARE specific for chapter 9, look to the first question.

  7. #7
    Lady Lobster's Avatar
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    Find whatever "the ghost of cooper past" means and put that into the 20th position on the map. Done.

    It's that simple. Why oh why would it be any more complicated?
    Mr. Lobster and I have had this discussion several times. I actually agree with Steve about this point as it makes the most sense to me. I guess I'd prefer to try to eliminate simpler, more obvious interpretations first, before moving on to more complicated theories. We've said before that if you are trying to find a sequence, if you have the first, second and last of that sequence, then you should have the 'map' for working out the rest.

    I do agree that it confuses things to have the word 'key' used in different contexts, but I am concentrating my efforts on what I consider to be the most obvious meaning of the word.

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    steve1002 is offline Junior Twelever Bronze steve1002 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Somewhere I remember reading that Ron said "we are assuming that most people are working on solving the map to CH1." or words to that effect. So I am sticking with the standard definition of Omega.

    Thanks for the responses to my "unambiguousness".

    BTW......does anyone have an aspirin? My head hurts!

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    Well Lady Lobster is the smart one around here, so I'll just nod and agree with her Although, we do have numerous disagreements about interpretations and things. We are currently working on the assumption of 1,20,...,Omega.

    One thing I'd add is this:

    The implication of "everything is contained within chapter 1" (and therefore information/answers for chapters 2 to 12 are irrelevant) for the chapter 1 silver eagle is that it would then be possible for someone new to the hunt to read ONLY chapter 1's 23 pages, solve chapter 1's very easy questions, do some fiddling with jeeps and ghosts, and then without reading any more of the book march off with a $20,000 prize.

    Part of that just doesn't "feel" right to me. If I were the author, I'd want to give $20K away to someone who had done more than read 23 pages of my book, which would imply that to win the chapter 1 silver eagle you'd need the knowledge gained from doing at least part of the rest of the book. At least READ it, if not solve the keys for all the chapters But that's just me.

    I think that this is the main reason that I keep the opinion that the "3 key theory" makes philosophical sense as a relevant interpretation of "omega key" at the very least...

    That's the biggest question in this hunt for me: not where do clues begin ("at chapter 1"), but... where do they end? Is chapter 13 1/2 used for C1's silver eagle? How would we ever know? Is chapter 12's unused word list used? How would we ever know? Are those symbols in tools used? Or are they for another chapter? Is chapter 7/8's key story used? I just have a hard time believing that the only knowledge used to solve the C1 silver eagle begins and ends with chapter 1. Maybe it does though.

    Lobster

  10. #10
    Lady Lobster's Avatar
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    That's the biggest question in this hunt for me: not where do clues begin ("at chapter 1"), but... where do they end?
    See, that's why I think the omega key is the last single key (#20 on the map) and not a set of keys. Again, if you know the first and last keys, those show you the boundaries, the beginning and end of the sequence. Everything else fits in the middle.

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