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Thread: C2 solution is out

  1. #31
    Vincentournier is offline Junior Twelever +1 Bronze Vincentournier is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Well ....

    How "easy it is" to say "everything was solvable" after we get the answer and tons of clues, i could say exactly the same thing and Hog is not objective at all by saying that.

    So Hog, please, let's go back a minute and try to explain us how the hell you solve any of those chapter WITHOUT CLUE !!!

    Please explain.

    Because personally I do not care that it is suitable after 10 of 50 or even 100 clues everyone could say so

    i want to know if the hunt is solvable without having to wait until Ron decide it is going to be solve !!!

    That is normally the least everyone would expect regarding a treasure hunt, isn't it ?

  2. #32
    Vincentournier is offline Junior Twelever +1 Bronze Vincentournier is an unknown quantity at this point
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    So just to continue a little bit on this subjective topic

    Because the hunt is for a good cause, because 12 peoples are going to win a lot of money and a last one is going to get a million dollars .... we have to continue to promote the hunt, to say everything is fine and very interesting, to believe that "it is a real hunt"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincentournier View Post
    Well ....

    How "easy it is" to say "everything was solvable" after we get the answer and tons of clues, i could say exactly the same thing and Hog is not objective at all by saying that.

    So Hog, please, let's go back a minute and try to explain us how the hell you solve any of those chapter WITHOUT CLUE !!!

    Please explain.

    Because personally I do not care that it is suitable after 10 of 50 or even 100 clues everyone could say so

    i want to know if the hunt is solvable without having to wait until Ron decide it is going to be solve !!!

    That is normally the least everyone would expect regarding a treasure hunt, isn't it ?
    Actually, there are tons of clues that validate both Chapter 1 and Chapter 2. I've found enough stuff *in retrospect* now to 100% solve Chapter 1 without any extra facebook clues. I found the final missing symbolic link this afternoon

    I've also worked out 95% of Chapter 2, although I'm still confused by JQ. While there is evidence to suggest that the "end" of the sequence does indeed have a twist (if you remember, I posted a month or two ago that I was expecting a twist), both internal clues and facebook clues clearly suggest a half/half "equality", which is inconsistent with a solution where the women's sequence only has 8 keys extracted using the boy's method. That remains my only concern with the C2 chapter -- that is does not, as published, appear to honor the clue:

    Our old friend "The first half is equal to the last half" is afoot again

    Which is a clue that relates the number 6, the foot of a bird, and an advertising slogan, doubly so.

    I hope there is a good explanation for it, but that part remains inconsistent as far as I can tell.

    So solutions ARE there, in the text and in other related places. The big question is whether these internal solutions are practically discoverable. That is, even though they're there, can they be discovered by someone with no additional info? I still don't think most chapters are (I'm holding out home for one specific chapter), because of a strange catch-22 where knowledge of future chapters appear to be key to disambiguating earlier chapters, yet you need to understand some of the mechanics of earlier chapters to understand the later chapters.

    So yes Vincent, the answers are there in the book. They're just buried under enormous piles of other stuff -- some of which appear to be used for gold eagle, some of which are actually used by other chapters, and some of which are red herrings.

    I'm starting to see how it works, but it sure as heck isn't easy.

  4. #34
    Doc
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    Greetings on an amazingly cool, clear autumn evening from the Bayou State of Louisiana!

    I'm reading the various responses to the chapter 2 solution with great interest. I've not been active on this hunt for the duration of chapter 2, but reading all this is making me start to itch again.

    Hog,

    I don't think folks are whining about not winning the eagle, and they certainly don't argue that breast cancer research is a bad cause.

    But, two of the keys were flat-out missing from the solution mechanism.

    That would ordinarily be just cause to close this book and move on as some questors have suggested....

    BUT....


    Dh is spot-on in his observation that the author has offered zero commentary about either of the two chapter solutions nor ANY of the Facebook clues other than congratulatory responses. The author has published only the winners' solutions.

    That's a curiosity in itself, and I very much would like to know the author's solution immediately....

    BUT....


    Vincent's (and others') point is well-taken. The winner's solution is completely dependent on the Facebook clues. Is there a viable, logical solution contained within the book that needs no other clues? If there is, we don't know what it is as yet. The frustration caused by thinking the puzzle cannot be solved without extra clues is understandable and would cause one to stop playing....

    BUT....

    Guys,

    The clues for a million dollar hunt are hiding in all this. There's more taking place here than meets the eye.

    1. One of the early Facebook clues--I think it was the one about chivalry, but I don't really remember--was created from a rotation cipher:

    26 x 3 with a Caesar shift of 1

    That's a very good description of the workings of a certain World War II code machine.

    2. You're probably not going to recall this, but when I was working on the concept of three keys, I suggested that each chapter contained clues that led to a three-letter word.

    For chapter 1, the word was TEA. for chapter 2, the word was FLY.

    So, when I saw Facebook clues about 'The sequence begins by encrypting what comes before 'U' and the business about 'FLY to the east...' and 'FLY to the west', I was a happy panda.

    3. I'm suggesting that ciphers are very logical puzzles. Excluding the 'J' and the 'Q' from the mechanism would be VERY DELIBERATE and are meant to be clues for something else.

    Two versions of chapter 2 and two keys are missing.

    One version, the first one, is MALE and the second version is FEMALE. 'J' 'Q' = JACK QUEEN from playing cards? Not only that, but the male chapter was TWO males and the female chapter was THREE females.

    The two chapters together = 2 3

    That 'omega' thing again. (23 = w).

    There's something else I thought about I'll throw into the milieu, and that's the 'J' = 10, and as we know from the chapter questions, a 'Q' = 'key'.

    If this '10 key' was deliberately excluded from the end of this chapter 2 sequence, I'm put in mind of that whole 'first = last' thing and remembered that the first of the Chapter 1 solution spells A TEN.

    I don't know if the solution to one chapter can influence the solution to another, but I'm chunking that bit of random thought out into the ocean.

    And, I have an idea why the J and Q had to be excluded in the first place. . .

    I'm really big into the idea of three keys playing into all this somehow, someday.

    I looked at the first three keys of each column.

    When you read them in reverse, they spell out something I find extraordinarily interesting considering the actual mechanism of the chapter solution:

    FLIP E N

    If one flips east and north, you would get west and south.

    Considering the solution was based on a left-most column and a right-most column, this looks awfully like it works in conjunction with that and would in effect reverse the letter order. Since the 'J' and 'Q' aren't a part of the columns, THIS REVERSAL WOULD NOT CONTAIN THOSE LETTERS.

    It appears to be creating some sort of ciphertext for chapter 2 and it would NOT contain 'J' or 'Q'.

    My apologies for a lot of random firings of the gray cells on this Friday evening. I hope something sparks for somebody else.

    I'd be very interested in seeing the solutions to the Facebook clues to see if anything pops out.

    Seeing 'Skyfall' tomorrow in the IMAX,

    Doc

  5. #35
    guttom2 is offline Good Twelever Gold guttom2 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    You have to think it would have been very easy to edit the text to have the J and the Q on the edge.

    Does anyone know how the clues " fly east toward the setting sun and fly west toward the rising sun" fit the solution to chapter 2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Dh is spot-on in his observation that the author has offered zero commentary about either of the two chapter solutions nor ANY of the Facebook clues other than congratulatory responses. The author has published only the winners' solutions.
    Nice to see you again, Doc.

    Just to address this question by you and DH... based on what I have discovered, Ron has a good reason not to publish the internal solutions or even the answers to facebook clues (because some of them reference internal solutions). It's not because he's trying to hide something, but rather a function of the hunt's clever design. With a bit of digging you will come to understand what I mean.

    Ron's caught between a rock and a hard place though, because I think people really do require SOME sort of closure on a chapter. Chapters already frustratingly have no feedback mechanism, and so you need something to at least allow people to gauge how they performed. If every chapter ended with "Fred won today! The rest of you were just wrong. Try again.", that's not a very good way to keep up interest.

    How you provide enough information to provide this without breaking your design goals though is a question that I'm glad I don't have to answer.



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    Quote Originally Posted by guttom2 View Post
    Does anyone know how the clues " fly east toward the setting sun and fly west toward the rising sun" fit the solution to chapter 2
    Yes. I can see how they both work. Found the rising sun but never could find the setting sun, although I never really searched hard. I'm sure it's there where it needs to be somewhere.
    Just remember to hop into your plane after you take a spin.

  8. #38
    Rx Jeff's Avatar
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    Great to see Doc back and I'm sure he enjoyed that James Bond flick.

  9. #39
    Thanar is offline Junior Twelever Copper Thanar is on a distinguished road
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    My (apparently wrong) interpretation of "fly east toward the setting sun" and "fly west toward the rising sun" was as follows:

    1) Both sentences describe an action that is impossible to do on Earth, since our planet spins around its axis such that the sun sets in the west and rises in the east. The sun would only set in the east and rise in the west on a planet that has retrograde spin (opposite that of the Earth).

    2) The only planet in our solar system that really qualifies for that is Venus (granted technically Uranus's spin is also retrograde, but it spins almost on its side like it's rolling around).

    3) This points to Celestial-Love (Venus = celestial object named after Roman goddess of Love) who is first mentioned in the girls version on page 34 the paragraph after the "ten subs" on the left edge of the page that I mentioned earlier.

    A textbook case of misinterpreting & overthinking a clue until you reach what appears to be a confirmer of what is actually the wrong location. Or, if it's an intentional red herring, it's a nasty one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanar View Post
    My (apparently wrong) interpretation of "fly east toward the setting sun" and "fly west toward the rising sun" was as follows:

    1) Both sentences describe an action that is impossible to do on Earth, since our planet spins around its axis such that the sun sets in the west and rises in the east. The sun would only set in the east and rise in the west on a planet that has retrograde spin (opposite that of the Earth).

    2) The only planet in our solar system that really qualifies for that is Venus (granted technically Uranus's spin is also retrograde, but it spins almost on its side like it's rolling around).

    3) This points to Celestial-Love (Venus = celestial object named after Roman goddess of Love) who is first mentioned in the girls version on page 34 the paragraph after the "ten subs" on the left edge of the page that I mentioned earlier.

    A textbook case of misinterpreting & overthinking a clue until you reach what appears to be a confirmer of what is actually the wrong location. Or, if it's an intentional red herring, it's a nasty one.
    I came to pretty much that identical conclusion early on (there is so much other verifying information related to what you found), and all of that Celestial-Love/Venus stuff did make chapter 2 completely unsolvable pre-retrospect IMO without extra clues. I know Shrek independently was on the Venus trail too. Fact is, there were far more clues pointing to page 34 as being the start of the women's sequence than page 32. We've got a viol reference, ten animals listed, Maxie pleasuring herself, rotation instructions, half-bad, chimes, mid-strides, Maxie's presence, sex/drugs/rock and roll hints, "Celestial-Love was first". Heaps and heaps more. Part of the reason for my initial "this chapter gets a rating of zero" comment. The clue-dense stuff in the chapter text itself has little to nothing to do with this chapter's solution, while the subtler stuff appears to.

    I can only assume that gold goose viol (6 string instrument) is telling us that page 6 (42) is a wild goose chase, which is what we're lead to believe in C1 geese are all about.

    The problem is, if page 6 is a wild-goose chase, then it logically invalidates another line of "bottom of our copy" clues dealing with sequence sizes which is also on that page, which doesn't make sense. In which case, we can't conclude that page 6 is a wild goose chase, and geese aren't wild goose chases. But we're told they are. So, we end up with circular geese symbolism where it is impossible to tell whether geese are red herrings.

    Complicating matters is that geese are pagan symbols of vigilance/wisdom, which is sort of the opposite of a red-herring. Geese also have a relationship to Venus, being Hera's emblem, a representation of love. And the Chinese traditional goose was a symbol of inspiration and happiness, making geese hardly a slam-dunk negative symbol. Worst of all, "golden goose" is a very common symbol for the goose, which may mean that geese have no meaning outside of a golden eagle solution.

    So perhaps it all is a red herring, but I can't see a way to disambiguate that and some other critical red-herring symbols across all 12 chapters so I'm going to have to rely on facebook clues to solve these chapters.

    It's also possible that what we found has no use yet, but may be of use later on.

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