# Thread: CHAPTER 4 - discussion and clues

1. Junior Twelever Bronze
Join Date
Nov 2011
Posts
89
Shrek, I actually figured out the riddle and was able to have the correct order for 16 keys. Unfortunately, I did not "remove" the final four from the sequence and place them at the end. The clues all pointed us toward looking for solution the way it ended up, but if they didn't give us the clues about the "final four" there still is no way that I have seen to determine this through the chapter alone. Im still trying to figure that one out. If we were to take into account the 4 removed numbers though, its not hard to see that there are only 24 possibilities and would only take a month to guess them all.

2. Hi Squirrelio, you refer again to "removing" the last four and placing at the end. I am confused. If you take the first 10 capitals from the beginning (using D to W) and the start from the end you only get 16 letters. The last four are not removed, they are simply not found ?? Or am I missing something

3. Junior Twelever Bronze
Join Date
Nov 2011
Posts
89
Negative, the only capital letters that are not found in the story are K and Q (that is within the D-W frame). Every other capital letter can be found in the story. I had the correct order of keys, however, I had the last four keys intermingled into the solution. If you take them out of the correct order and place them at the end you will have the 16 in the correct spaces and then just the last four to arrange in their correct position. Not sure how else to describe it than that.

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OK, now I see the difference. You are including the added cipher letters. If you remove them and just use the real story capital letters you get left without v j k q.

5. Where did you get your capital V from??

6. So just to sum up

1. Remove the poem cipher text
2. Extract just capitals.
3. Extract in range D-W 10 from beginning
4. Continue extracting from end forwards
5. Results in 16 letter sequence.
6. Guess the order of the last 4 ??
7. Caeser shift back to D=1

7. Where in the story does it hint at using only capital letters and to start at the second word at the beginning of the story until you get 10 keys. Because of the poem, all the Charlies and that it was chapter 3 I can see the caesar shifting. But without facebook clues where would anyone possibly know where to start. I have not even gotten into the final four discussion because I still want to know just from the text in the chapter how anyone could have gotten the first 16 keys without additional clues.

8. Junior Twelever Bronze
Join Date
Nov 2011
Posts
89
Wow, I'm going back and re-reading some of the note I took and why I placed the letters where I did and there were so many entries they are starting to run together. I am mistaken...The K and Q and V are all missing from the story, however, the J is capable as being found in 2 spots. Those spots are technically part of the hidden poem, so I guess they could be construed as not part of the story technically. Looking back at my notes, I have no idea as to why I placed the K and V where I did. I can't find that at all. My own stupidity sounds about right or a mistake in double encoding. Sorry if I may have misled some of you, it wasn't intentional. I've got to go back and try and figure out why I put them in where I did. The Q, I did have at the end as always.

9. Originally Posted by shrek
I makes me wonder, if someone just guessed the 20 numbers and got them right (I know a really long shot,but), how would we work out the correct way of getting these by backsolving. I can just see their solution page 'Actually i just guessed them'. Would Ron put up a correct solution of how it should have been solved, or would we be kept in the dark.
The solution is titled "Solving C3 the Cunningham Way", not "The Ron Shore Way", so I think it's quite possible that a winning solution may be somewhat or even totally distant from the actual solution.

I think the first 16 of that solution makes sense and is probably right. I'm not convinced that the Cunningham final-four solution is the intended method though.

The clues to the final four seem to say to me "read small letters, backwards". That at least gives us SOME symmetry with the first 10 letters forwards, and the last 10 backwards. It also fits final 4 clues "rabbit out of a hat" (backwards) and "survivors LEFT" (backwards), and fits small letters ("micronesia"). There are 21 locations in the text where K,J,V,Q (ceasar 3) can be found backwards. There are 84 locations in the text where H,G,S,N can be found backwards.