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Thread: CHAPTER 4 - discussion and clues

  1. #1271
    Rx Jeff's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, I believe the Dutchman clue had no meaning other than there is nothing on page 70.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rx Jeff View Post
    Wow! Trying a solution with no clues. Good luck with that.
    Oh, there are plenty of clues. Many hundreds of them. The problem is in working out what goes with what, and it's no small problem.

    Pretty sure I know the general mechanism (and in some cases creative gimicks) of a bunch of the chapters... if I had 2 somewhere-in-the-middle keys from each chapter, I'm pretty confident I could crack one of them open with a bit of heavy lifting and no facebook clues.

    Unfortunately, right now the herring misdirection just makes it completely impossible to tell whether you are on the right track or not. Some of the herrings in this book will have 10 different hints or clues saying DO THIS! START HERE! But, then, hidden somewhere else in a really obscure, do-i-trust-that-or-not manner is a Wayne's World "NOT!!!" Which means, you can't even use a weight of evidence approach to solve the chapters. It seems like even large numbers of hints can be undone by a single contrary clue, or some obscure relational symbol to something that may or may not be a herring due to some attribute sometimes associated with misdirection.

    My Christmas wish is for some keys in future chapters, so we can at least TRY to solve them without facebook clues.

  3. #1273
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    my biggest hurdle is figuring out which clues are herrings. What does everyone think the herring clues are? I believe the herrings must be:


    Nov 22nd, 2013....The Dutchman may have been 70 years old, but on the other hand... (later clute dismisses this one)
    Nov 29th, 2013.... To solve part of the mystery the Peralta family had to talk to the Code Talkers (I don't see how this is possible)
    Feb 14, 2014: Chapter 4 clue: Riddle me this and riddle me that, this years Valentines Day is where it’s at.
    Nov 8th, 2013.... It took the Peralta family at least two times to figure out how to solve the Peralta stones.


    this big one is wether there are 2 numbers missing at the end of the solution or if there are 3 stragglers. these two clues directly contradict each other.


    maybe Ron will tell us which clues are herrings for the last clue of the summer today?

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    I don't know what to think about these red herrings being used in this way (in the facebook clues)...

    In my mind a red herring should be something you find along the way and it's up to you to decide if it is or is not.

    Are these truly red herrings???

    Just my opinion though.

  5. #1275
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    Quote Originally Posted by guttom2 View Post
    my biggest hurdle is figuring out which clues are herrings. What does everyone think the herring clues are? I believe the herrings must be:
    this big one is wether there are 2 numbers missing at the end of the solution or if there are 3 stragglers. these two clues directly contradict each other.

    These don't necessarily contradict each other... 'straggler' implies you will find them a ways after the rest and the two that 'went on their own' implies missing. I think you will find the 10 alpha keys close to the start of aplha and then 5 omega keys close to start of omega. There will be a significant amount of text between omega key 5 and keys 6, 7, 8 and of course omega 9 and 10 can not be found but that leaves only 2 possible solutions just like one of the last clue states.

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    I think all this talk about the 'red herring' clues is confusing the clue interpretations. Whe Ron said that clues are given to misdirect you, I believe he is trying to say that the real clue is subtly tucked in the wording of the given clue, and example may be (and I haven't researched this) may be the "The Dutchman may have been 70 years old, but on the other hand..." clue. One could just ignore everything except the word 'hand'. Maybe Ron is pointing out to look for the word hand in the text.

    Just some thoughts. I do not think Ron is purposely going to feed us false clues!
    "Do or do not; there is no try." --- Yoda

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    I'm not really too upset over it or anything but I think he really means it when he says "a few chosen clues are meant to throw you off"

    Herrings are awesome but they have to flow, you need to be able to eventually get to a point where you can say... "oh that sneaky Mr. Shore really got me this time"... and who knows maybe this is the case, maybe somebody has figured out exactly which clues we need to "disregard" to "get the start lit".

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    Quote Originally Posted by bookworm660 View Post
    I do not think Ron is purposely going to feed us false clues!
    I definitely agree with you in that some of the clues need to be examined again; perhaps some clues are not as important as they seem although they still apply. Kazoo, I have been working along they same reasoning as far as how the key sequence operates. I was thinking that for keys 11-15, maybe "this" is what only happens five times...check out the invisible ink to see what I mean.

    I am having trouble figuring out logical places to start the alpha and omega parts. What are others thinking? I had been only looking at the questions in the chapter including question 8 at the end. Although it is the only Navajo question, it just seems too random to be part of the answer...thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bookworm660 View Post
    I think all this talk about the 'red herring' clues is confusing the clue interpretations. Whe Ron said that clues are given to misdirect you, I believe he is trying to say that the real clue is subtly tucked in the wording of the given clue, and example may be (and I haven't researched this) may be the "The Dutchman may have been 70 years old, but on the other hand..." clue. One could just ignore everything except the word 'hand'. Maybe Ron is pointing out to look for the word hand in the text.

    Just some thoughts. I do not think Ron is purposely going to feed us false clues!
    I was talking about herrings in the internal solutions of the book itself. There ARE a number of very real herrings in there (i.e. pure misdirection), and it is the detection of those that is critical to solving a chapter without facebook clues. Although it seems most people have given up on even attempting to look for clues in the book, there are a ton of clues in there, and Ron is not shy to use herrings in there.

    As far as facebook clues and false clues... most clues in any hunt have multiple possible interpretations. Sometimes you get lucky and a clue has multiple REAL meanings, and so your odds of at least determining one real meaning are good. Usually there are one or two "most likely" interpretations, and then a couple of other "less probable" interpretations. A clue is for all practical purposes a herring if all probable interpretations are false, and some obscure or minor interpretation is the correct one. Why? Because most people will assume one of the more probable interpretations and be led astray by it. Something that leads most people astray is a herring. Now there's nothing wrong with that... that's just how hunts sometimes go.

  10. #1280
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    There you go kids. The last clue until fall. Hope someone has that lightbulb moment and solves it, otherwise we will see you back in September. Have a safe and wonderful summer.

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