# Thread: CHAPTER 4 - discussion and clues

1. Originally Posted by Rx Jeff
Ron said it was easy.
E AS Y or 5 as 25, so Y is 5 also, and obviously twice 7 (twice as lucky)

2. Originally Posted by shrek
E AS Y or 5 as 25, so Y is 5 also, and obviously twice 7 (twice as lucky)
Very nice Shrek. So I take it the clue that threw everyone off had to deal with the 14th key placement. Or the 3 stragglers Joy clue. Guess we will see this week.

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Originally Posted by Rx Jeff
We all pondered the whole "start at the Needle" which is of course letter N and 14. And the very first clue said the riddles are where its at. Chapter 3's first clue told you to look for capitals. Better heed and believe the first clue of every chapter going forward. Ron said it was easy. We just all assumed it would be more difficult than the previous chapters.
When you see the final solution, you will know what I am talking about.
Well then, I was using page 78. The man's question has the word "where" in it on line 6. The last line of page 78 has the "at", and if you skip over to the last line of pg79, you find "where it was".

I think the 14 was meant for the 21-26. 1-10 is good. 11-20 gets you on "second" base (likely page 74), and 21-26 still need to go home "run". "Run" shows up on line 15 over on the other page.

4. I received a few enquiries about how the text, chapter clues and some knowledge on ciphers helped me interpret Chapter 4. I'll offer a few thoughts while I await the published solution. Fundamentally, I believe each Chapter's questions is a set of instructions or hints, akin to the poem in "A Treasure's Trove" and the journal in "Doritos: The Quest". A question's method, answer or content helps you with some part of the Chapter's solution.

I'll use a few questions in Chapter 4 to illustrate my line of thinking:

Question 4: Answer "Saguaro" is the largest cactus and is native to Arizona -> Use capital letters
Question 6: Uses a 36-character Caesar shift -> Use 36 lines on each page
Question 11: Answer is "NS" and refers to the Paris Meridian, which was a rival to the Prime Meridian. -> Draw a North-South line on each page that
aligns with the indented first line of a paragraph (Paris Meridian is longitude 2°20′14.03 east of Prime Meridian or left-hand margin).

I have similar thoughts about the remaining questions, but these examples provide enough context on how I approached the chapter and its questions.

Lastly, I believe the author approached each chapter with a logical structure in mind and it's self-contained, meaning the requisite content is present in the chapter and not dependent upon preceding chapters. If that's true, we don't require weekly spoon-fed Facebook clues to solve each chapter, and we can work the chapters in parallel rather than sequentially.

Regards,

California Red

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I fully expect that the answer will be two lines (even lines), on two even numbered pages, using every letter of every even word. The substitution cipher is likely U=A, V=B, W=C or perhaps a caesar cipher 2, 22, 24, 4, or 11? You probably have to start from the end and go backwards. My best guess was pg 78 line 20 and pg 74 line 10. It's probably easier than you think because you only need two lines...the theme of the chapter.

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It is very interesting that so many people got such different results for the chapter 4 map. I thought the first 2 keys would be 1 2, that being confirmed by the use of the Caesar +12 for solving many of the clues and the mother goose nursery rhyme.

The bigger question is what is the method of the solve? Chapter 1-3 solves seemed to line up nicely, use Revelations 22:13 and the method used to solve poem. But what is the method for solving 4-12?

I am guessing that some people will be a little upset when the solution comes out and we find out some of the clues were misleading(not sure if it was an intentional red herring or just part of the puzzle solve). I am guessing that the 3 given numbers for position 14 were incorrect and needed to be divided by 2.

Anyone starting on Chapter 5?

7. There was some interest in reverse-engineering the first three chapters and their known solutions (both alpha and numeric). I had a free hour on Sunday, so I tried a straightforward exploration.

I settled on Chapter 2 since the poem was "hidden" as a text block in the middle (roughly) of the chapter. Chapters 1 and 3 were too much work for an hour; the poems were interspersed throughout the chapter. As an interesting side note, Chapter 4's poem is a text block at the end of the chapter, and Chapter 5 is again interspersed. I'm concluding the author's poem placements weren't random and instead purposeful.

I think the author "hid" the caesar shift as an addendum on the last line of the cipher text. The ciphertext (page 32, line 19) and its Bacon-specific plaintext (unique code for each letter) read:

cHipwEntOntotELLHoWgraNDfATheRBennettcame
-1000100100001111010001101100110000000000
REHUNTAA

The first letter ("c") was ignored because it's required for the letter "u" in "treasure" on line 18. I interpreted the "REHUNTAA" plaintext as either "Re: Hunt, A=A" or "Hunter A=A" (anagram). Effectively, don't apply a caesar shift, which was true for Chapter 2's solve.

So, why include the last ten letters versus excluding them? Ending with nine letters or less and thereby negating the last two 5-digit strings is simpler than completing a set of ten letters with two words. It was purposeful and the author used the first letter ("B" in "Bennett") in one of the last two words to hint at it.

Regards,

California Red

p.s. Lastly, the two versions of the Bacon cipher have 24 letters (I/J and U/V combined) and 26 letters. The chapter's selection process omitted the last two letters, matching the difference between the cipher's versions. The author knows ciphering techniques very well, and I observed he often incorporates a cipher's nuances into his thought process. I'm unsure on this one, but it was interesting.

8. Dawnplayer,
The clue says the 14th letter is J, L or N. This was a misleading hint that the cipher used is number=letter. Everyone thought is was a key placement clue.

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Oh man, you just made my heart sink. So the only number keys were 5 and 18? And it's possible that letter 5 could be DBH, but also maybe V,X? Maybe I did it backwards. Should have used line 10 first *facepalm*. Alpha then becomes this...it almost looks right too.
NOTEBACTLI

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And the winning sequence is?

CHATBLESMI
NJDFGOKQRP

I'm speechless