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Thread: CHAPTER 4 - discussion and clues

  1. #1531
    Rx Jeff's Avatar
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    Still a bit confused on how omega was achieved from question 8 especially where did that Q come from in the 18th position?

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    gizmo2337 is offline Good Twelever Gold gizmo2337 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    ok, i understand how to "obtain" the first part, but how the heck does that fit ALL the clues? And how does Q8 fit? Even with the answer, I still don't get it lol

  3. #1533
    squirrelio is offline Junior Twelever Bronze squirrelio is on a distinguished road
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    First, very well done to those who managed to solve this thing, and lobster and Jeff on having the alpha key. I am still baffled by this solution. I have a few questions if anyone can explain this better to me. Did this answer really use the questions at the end of the chapters as part of the solution, or did we derive the cipher to use from them and then use it on the text of the chapter? It has been a long time since I posted here, but I still follow this forum and hunt regularly. My last questions is how is one supposed to discover any of this without the FB clues?

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    gizmo2337 is offline Good Twelever Gold gizmo2337 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Jeff,
    If the first part makes sense to you, go look at line 20 page 79 and go a few lines back. I haven't figured it out, but I think you will find it there. If true, then darn, I was using line 20 page 78...how is 79 even?

  5. #1535
    gizmo2337 is offline Good Twelever Gold gizmo2337 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Nevermind, it's from the chapter questions 14 and 8? OK, I suppose we have a link to the chapter questions now lol. Anyone care to explain how the clues fit?

  6. #1536
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    Not much more to add here....

    I had alpha pretty early... weeks ago.
    I knew philosophically to use question #8. It was clear from a lot of stuff.

    However, the key placements for 14 (wrong for at least 2 months before a non-correction correction was posted as an optic cross clue, at which point it was just confusing) and 15 (wrong) , "2 on a hunt of their own" (there were 3), kryptos "Q" placement hint (Q was not the last letter before the end of the question, nor was it the 5th last letter in the sequence), thanksgiving ....Q (Q was not the very last letter) placement hint, etc etc completely ruled it out.

    The omega as posted fits almost zero key placement clues. In fact, it runs contrary to the straightforward interpretations of nearly every single one. What's most vexing is that alpha DID fit all of the key placement clues. So for half the sequence the key clues were honest and half they weren't.

    I think I can safely say that even though I had alpha, understood the cipher and starting points, there's no way in a million years I'd have submitted that sequence.

    Congratulations for Annika for winning. I have no idea how you managed to ignore all those key hint clues.

  7. #1537
    Lobster's Avatar
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    Also should add... it made no sense to stop reading omega at the end of QN #14. If you keep on reading ("just keep on going" as we are told very specifically by a clue to do), you hit an R in question 9, P in question 10, and Q in question 17. That gives the wrong answer.

    All previous chapters have "kept on going" until you ran out of letters. Why you'd stop at the end of Qn #14 is beyond my understanding.

  8. #1538
    gizmo2337 is offline Good Twelever Gold gizmo2337 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Lobster,
    Curious on the Q14 clue...i mean...go back and start from the first clue and show how this works? Just use the first 10-15 chapter clues...I don't see it? Funny how I spent all of CH1 using the questions, and all of CH4 using the text *facepalm*

    I suppose the confusion on the key placement, Rx Jeff already mentioned. Some of the keys were number keys, and others were letters. I didn't pick up on that. They may not be the same.

  9. #1539
    Lobster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gizmo2337 View Post
    I suppose the confusion on the key placement, Rx Jeff already mentioned. Some of the keys were number keys, and others were letters.
    Yes, this was always a possibility, but this interpretation wasn't even internally consistent.

    The 15th LETTER in Q8 is R, yes.

    But the 14th LETTER (a different clue) does not match a letter. A logical solver would think that if "letter key clues" referred to letters in the text, then they should always refer to keys in the text. They don't.

    We were also told "The 8th letter in the answer you seek is a 18,19 or 20"
    Clearly this was referring to KEY 8 as being one of those (letter 8 is "What blu[E]". Again, that's got nothing to do with letters, particularly since QN #8 was NUMBERS, not letters!

    So there was no way to ever know whether each "three,number,options" was referring to a key, a letter in ciphertext, a letter in deciphered text, or a herring. No wonder if took 2 years to solve.

    Anyway, I'm done with C4 and discussing it. It is what it is. I'm erasing all memory of it from my memory so as to maintain my sanity.

  10. #1540
    gizmo2337 is offline Good Twelever Gold gizmo2337 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobster View Post
    Yes, this was always a possibility, but this interpretation wasn't even internally consistent.

    The 15th LETTER in Q8 is R, yes.

    But the 14th LETTER (a different clue) does not match a letter. A logical solver would think that if "letter key clues" referred to letters in the text, then they should always refer to keys in the text. They don't.

    We were also told "The 8th letter in the answer you seek is a 18,19 or 20"
    Clearly this was referring to KEY 8 as being one of those (letter 8 is "What blu[E]". Again, that's got nothing to do with letters, particularly since QN #8 was NUMBERS, not letters!

    So there was no way to ever know whether each "three,number,options" was referring to a key, a letter in ciphertext, a letter in deciphered text, or a herring. No wonder if took 2 years to solve.

    Anyway, I'm done with C4 and discussing it. It is what it is. I'm erasing all memory of it from my memory so as to maintain my sanity.
    "What blue [s]emi"
    Ok, I think I get that one now. The 8th was S, because U=A and since you've doubled up...

    Meh, this chapter was a little too different in its own way. I doubt we will see a convincing answer from the winner that uses all the clues, but I'll be curious to look at least.

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