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Thread: CHAPTER 4 - discussion and clues

  1. #1551
    Morrigan's Avatar
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    Annika has said on another forum that she does not believe it's possible to solve without FB. Alll of the other winners concur. None of them used anything but FB clues. If you don't believe them, fine. But fundamentally this entire hunt is an attempt to read the mind of a Canadian ego maniac whose real goal is to meet Donald Trump or Jeff Probst. On is supposed to interpret "misleading", misspelled, mis-typed and otherwise mangled "clues" on a FB page. There is no underlying meaning. There is no structure. There is no "there" there. Just interpret the clues and find letters. That's it. All the people who claim to have found meaning and clues in the text and and so on, DO IT AFTER THE FACT AND THEY HAVE NOT WON! After one sees the solution, finding false meaning is pretty easy. But the winners have relied only on the clues. In other words, they accurately read Ron's mind, not the book. Face reality.

  2. #1552
    Vincentournier is offline Junior Twelever +1 Bronze Vincentournier is an unknown quantity at this point
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    I 100% agree with you !

    This treasure hunt is a joke and i have no regret to have put the book in my trash

  3. #1553
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    No point even reading the stories. Just wait for 6 months of clues then go find letters. Not an intelligent hunt at all.
    But Endgame looks good!

  4. #1554
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    I still can't make sense out of many of the clues on facebook.... most of them actually.

  5. #1555
    Rx Jeff's Avatar
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    After a 19 month ordeal with chapter 4, the team is just too busy to release pre-made clues for chapter 5. Flight and hotel accomodations are very time consuming.
    Endgame begins October 7th.

  6. #1556
    Doc
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    Greetings on a hot, balmy evening back in the state of Louisiana!

    I've not really participated in the last two chapters, but that's going to change now. We have a LOT to discuss.

    Firstly, let's face it. The Facebook solutions are bad, and they've been bad since chapter 1. We have no 'a-ha' feeling that a good solution provides for a good puzzle.

    That being said, with the release of the chapter 4 solution, I'm now one hundred percent positive there's a 'correct' solution for each chapter that's arrived in a logical, elegant manner that involves the use of 3 keys. That should be somewhat intuitive at this point since every answer is identical: a first section of ten, a second section of letters, and a third part of missing letters.

    I don't want to bog down a discussion about chapter 4 with discussion about a unifying solution and the answers to chapters 1 - 3, so I'll limit this to discussing some of these astonishing Facebook clues the author gave us. The reason some of these clues seem so awkward is because he's hinting at the 'real' solution in addition to trying to help you find the chapter answer.

    1. To those who had the first ten letters correct from Q14, you were given a hint in the answer itself where to go to find the next part. The first four letters of the solution were CHAT. First = last in just about everything in this puzzle, and this is no different. If the first part was 'Code CHAT', the second part should involve 'Code TALK'--namely to send you to the code-talkers question.

    2. 'You will need to find two additional numbers that went on a treasure hunt of their own'. The author meant you to think it was referring to 'two missing numbers'. It's a hint towards the real solution. The two numbers he's referring to were 11 and 17. Make your alphabet for the answer. Write 1 - 20. Then write the letters down accordingly from A to T, then starting back over at U, V, W.... Keep going about five circuits and see what I'm referring to at 11 and 17.

    3. The 14th letter is a 10, 12, or 14. You were supposed to think this was a letter placement clue and that either the J, L, or N would be in the 14th position. It IS a letter placement clue, but it was a puzzle. As you're aware, the 14th letter was an F. Here's what we were supposed to figure out:

    10 = Roman numeral X. SIX--the 'F'--IS X (anagram SIX).
    12 = L = Freemason character for both 'E' and 'F'
    14 = N = North from the '12' clue. For this instance, it means 12:00.

    If you made it that far, you were supposed to realize the nature of the three clues you were given:

    X - E/F - North

    The 'X' at one end and 'North' at the other end was supposed to tell you that the map was involved. You know it had to be the 'F'. Meaning, what was 'missing' from the middle in all of this was the 'E'. That was a hint for stuff that came later in the chapter solution to help you order the three missing letters

    4. 'The Dutchman may have been 70 years old' The '70' clue was meant to show you that '7' and the zero, or the 'blank' were equivalent. Part of the 'real' solution.

    5. 'Choose the husband and wife' was referring to key 17 on your alphabet list: the Q and the K or 'queen' and 'king'.

    6. The 8th letter in the answer you seek is a 18, 19, or 20. It's a letter placement clue, but once you solve the puzzle, you would KNOW it was the 'S'. This is one of those 'blank in the middle' puzzles.

    18 = R
    20 = T

    It's an abbreviation for something that tells you that you're correct about working the puzzle: R IGH T. For you to 'know' you're correct, the S, the part in the middle, has to be equal to IGH

    It is. GHI = 7 8 9. Look on your telephone keypad. Those numbers occupy SOUTH on each column.

    You weren't supposed to guess at these letter placement clues.

    7. The 15th letter in the answer you seek is a 4, 10, or 18.

    4 = D
    10 = Roman numeral X
    18 = R

    This is a clue for the 'real' solution. Look at your code columns at key '10'.

    This was telling you the 15th letter in the answer we REALLY seek, the 'O', or the 'blank' is an X-key. And it's in the middle of 4, 10, 18.

    8. 'Anything previous to page 72 will not help you in finding the silver eagle.' Literally means what it says considering the keys came from the questions. There IS something previous to 'page 72' that WILL help you once you solve its puzzle.

    72 = 8 x 9

    Rearrange that to 8 9 X, or 8, 9, 10. Previous to that you have 1-7. You can look at question 17 to see that big X sitting there that's part of the 'real' solution.

    9. '...answer is partially spelled out and easy enough to snare'. BEAUTIFUL clue.

    a. SNARE is 'answer partially spelled out'. It's MISSING W.
    b. First = last. SNARE = NARES which is a NOSE. NOSE is the four directions with a MISSING W.
    c. SNARE = TRAP. It's a REVERSE PART.

    These are all clues for the 'real' solution. Bear in mind that the lower case omega = W.

    Guys, I have a lot of thinking and work to do.

    I'm 100 percent positive there's a 'real' solution using clues in the book that one will 'know' the answer is correct when you submit it. I'm working on reverse engineering this solution by working on chapters 1 - 4.

    And I'm making some headway I want to discuss in detail when I get my head around more of this. Not planning on working on chapter 5 until I understand what's Really Going On.

    Keep the faith,

    Doc

    PS--please feel free to cuss and discuss anything I'm posting. We need to get some juices flowing. I don't think I have access to all the clues as yet. I've got to go back and see if I'm missing any of the Facebook ciphers, and I'd be hugely appreciative if anybody could help out with any extra messages from JOY. I'm aware of the invisible ink at the end of the book, but not much else.

  7. #1557
    Doc
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    A quick note:

    WAYYY back in 2010 when the hunt was getting started, the author released 10 'extra clues' one of which was 'Q8 Code talker'.

    Just sayin'....

    Doc

  8. #1558
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    So Doc, are you proposing that there is a mechanism and clues in the book that will produce the same chapter solutions and that the letter sequences that the winners have arrived at via Facebook clues are actually the 'confirmers' of the solutions?

  9. #1559
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    Having reviewed Chapter 4's solution and path to a solve, I can't reproduce the same answer with my methods. I tried reverse-engineering, using the same mechanisms I discovered, but reached an impasse after a few hours. Regardless, something's amiss - you don't need the content and structure in Chapter 4 to hide its solution within a few chapter questions. Then, lead your audience there with FB clues for 19 months. It's wasteful and overly complex. Honestly, the current solution felt like a built-in back door. I'm still pondering my next steps on the subsequent chapters.

    I have more thoughts on Chapter 2. I have the "male" version and I read its first ten letters were the first letters of individual lines beginning at the end of the poem. But, how do you reduce 21 individual lines - number of lines between end of poem and section break - to just ten lines?

    The first letter of the 21 individual lines are:

    ilYfwYDlAoamCItswisIw (first letters)

    A reasonable first step is eliminating subsequent repeating letters, giving you tweleve unique letters:

    ilYfwYDlAoamCItswisIw (first letters)
    ilYfw-D-Ao-mC-ts----- (omit repeating letters)
    llulluulullluulllllul (lower- or upper-case)
    llilliilllllillllllil (left margin or indented)

    We know "Y" and "W" were not in the final solution (only letters A-T), but they are found in this string. Why exclude them? I don't have a pat answer, but I made these observations:

    1) 21 lines = 21st letter of alphabet = U
    2) YwYww = subset of letters past T in order = 10100 (Bacon cipher) = U
    3) YYDCI = indented letters = 00111 (Bacon cipher) = H = first letter of both poem and text where poem was found = use first letters
    4) DCI = subset of YYDCI that are roman numerals and indented = 601 = 1001011001 (binary) = 10010 11001 (Bacon cipher) = S Z = last 8 letters of the alphabet = use last letters , "female" version solve (8 digits), use last letters
    5) YY + DCI = 2 letters (non-Roman, past T) + 8 letters (Roman) = 10 letters

    Concerning the poem itself, only 3 letters form a complete set of 5 digits in plaintext, starting with the first letter of its line. The rest of the 20 lines use one to four of the first letters from the preceding line. The line numbers are 1, 5, and 12; the letters are "H", "O" and "E". The sum of line numbers is 1 + 5 + 12 = 18 or 18 of 20 letters found after the poem. The letters are "H" = 8 (female version) and "O" + "E" or 15 + 5 = 20 or unique digits in a solution.

    I also shared that the last line of the poem-related plaintext read "REHUNTAA". If "AA" implies no caesar shift (A=A) and solutions are twenty unique digits (letters A-T), then pinpointing "U", "8" and a notion about placement makes sense.

    Finally, without a solution in hand, I acknowledge these observations resemble conjecture more than fact.

    Regards,

    California Red

  10. #1560
    Rx Jeff's Avatar
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    Someone writes a story. Ron then forms a puzzle of finding letters within that story. How could there possibly an internal mechanism if the puzzle maker did not write the story?
    And after 19 months we find the answer in the questions just to mix it up a bit. And now a delay to start the next chapter.
    Endgame is great so far and smart. You do not need spoonfed clues to lead you. It is all right there in the book and online.
    Mr Shore got my support with my book purchases and getting others to buy in. But it's no longer fun and I do not enjoy waiting for Friday to come around for another clue to continue.
    Enjoy chapter 5.

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