# Thread: CHAPTER 4 - discussion and clues

1. Originally Posted by Rx Jeff
.... but I am sure without being clued that capital letters were involved ...
What was strange about the cipher text in chapter 3 ?? It had a lot of Capitals !! (I know, hindsight is wonderful)

2. They are random in the sense that there is no reason to start at any given spot. And if you have found anything other than a Facebook clue that gives you an idea of where to start, good for you. They are further random in the sense that the string of letters is meaningless in and of itself. There is nothing confirmatory about it. Hence the fact that no winner has "known" they got it. A six year old could in fact find it if they knew where to start.

3. I got the mechanism. A six year old could get the "answer" if they knew where to start. But why start at any given spot? Ok, I can see the logic of starting at the beginning and even "a few minutes later". But without clues how would you know that? In C2, why right after the poem? Why not anywhere else? It is random in the sense that there is no logic to show you where to start. Random in that the strings of letters are meaningless in and of themselves. No winner has known they won, there is nothing in the letter series that confirms itself as the winner. There's no apparent puzzle to solve, just find the right starting point using FB clues and pick out letters. And if you have found the places to start without clues, then good for you. It was supposed to be solvable without clues, FB or otherwise. People claim to have found clues as to where to start using the text, but they always say that after the fact. After someone else won. Then they imagine they found something that confirms it. If they really had found a textual clue that showed them where to start and in which direction, they would have won. The winners, however, have always gotten it using FB clues, not imaginary arcane references in the book.

4. Getting the hang of it. Copper
Join Date
Jun 2011
Posts
19
What I find strangest is how uncreative the whole thing is.

Ron could have created a puzzle in any way and he chose to take random letters out of the book and turn them into numbers?

Why? Why couldn't he have had the answer be the geo-coordinates in the city of the chapter and you had to solve a series of clues and determine the real-life hiding spot?
Why not have the answer to a chapter a string of 10 names in some order, and the clues lead to those names? Why not have the answer require a street name and address?

Of all the potential ways to choose a winner Ron appears to have chosen the most boring and uncreative one possible.

How is taking letters out of a book and turning them into numbers "the greatest treasure hunt"? How is it even a "mediocre" treasure hunt? Where is the puzzle?

5. My point exactly. It is in fact so simple minded in appearance so far, that one of the greatest problems is that many people are over-thinking it. How one would know where to start, etc. without clues (as was alleged by Ron), is a bigger mystery than the "puzzle" itself.

6. Hi folks, haven't touched the book since Ron posted that C2's texts were of no importance now that C2 has been solved.

It sort of soured me on the hunt as a whole, since it implies that 99% of the things that appeared to be clues or hints in C2 but ended up not being related to the C2 solution (ex wives, celestial-love, white knight, jet-black, toiletry keys, nameless narrator of maxie, keys for the ex-wives, the rocks, alcatraz/indian, chili cheese dogs, restaurant chains, movie character references, sex/drugs/rocknroll references, etc etc etc) are nothing but useless, unintended noise. In other words, one has to assume for ALL chapters than anything that sounds like a clue is useless noise.

I'm looking forward to seeing the C3 "solution", but I suspect it, like C1 and C2 will be completely disjointed from the primary clue-sounding elements of the C3 story.

Not sure if I'll continue with C4 and onward (frankly, searching for sprinkled letters in a book holds little interest to me), but I do hope that C3's solution will give me some hope that there's more to these solutions than logic-free letter extraction.

7. Junior Twelever Bronze
Join Date
Nov 2011
Posts
89
I don't understand you people. Yes, I do share the same frustration as everyone else in MY lack of ability to solve these puzzles and win an eagle. However, I would not criticize Ron for creating a treasure hunt that people have to work to find the solution for. You have to remember, he is giving you a chance to win something worth several thousand dollars, and eventually possibly even win the \$1,000,000 prize. To sit here and criticize the way he found to "disguise" a sequence of 20 objects in at least 13 different ways is ridiculous. Yes, I agree that they are not the "most" creative ways, but you have to realize that the puzzles have to be self contained for this to be legitimate. You can't design a treasure hunt around people's ability to decipher the answer, nor can you make it too easy, nor can you make it something that requires researching some unbelievable tangent to a particular word in order to "find" a location of something.

At this point, we need to stop complaining about the solutions and ask ourselves, why did he hide it this way? That is the true "mechanism" of this hunt. While Morrigan claims to have been able to find the "mechanism", I don't believe we have truly discovered it. We have to look into WHY he placed the letters where he did, rather than complain about where he put them. It is going to be different for each one of these chapters and we need to think of how many different ways there are to hide something in plain sight. Yes, we can look at each chapter by itself, but we have to look at the grand scheme of things. We have to look at each of them as part of a 13 piece puzzle and put them all together. That is how we will solve this thing. Yes, it is frustrating in the mean time, but nobody is forcing you to play this game and to keep trying to solve it. If you don't like it quit. If you don't want to quit, then stop complaining and try to figure out the solution. Either way, lets not keep turning these post threads into a b*tch session. If you want to do that, then start a new thread called complaints about this hunt. Anyway, my 2 cents worth.

8. Junior Twelever Bronze
Join Date
Nov 2011
Posts
89
Lobster, I would hate to see you go. I know its frustrating, but I know you have the type of mind that will help us all figure this thing out. Just looking at the lines you drew above, it's easy to see that you are thinking logically about the solution. I believe the problem though is that we need to stop looking to the text to show us the solution and look for a way that he can hide it. The only thing then that seems to be missing is the "primer" of where to begin. That is the part that we all seem to be having so much of an issue with. Without revealing too much of my "theory" yet, I think we need to look more at the "keys" and the poem and the author and password, and the sudokus, and all of the other ciphers he used in each chapter and questions. I think that will help us to determine the starting point and move on from there. Like you, I am very anxious to see the solution to chapter three and I think it will help tremendously in determining the rest of the chapters. There are other minds out there, such as Doc and Jeff that are incredibly talented at thinking outside the box, far more than I, I am afraid to admit, but the things they do for me, are to open my mind to looking at the puzzle in a different way. Not being literal in how they drawing their solutions because it would be rehashing what they have already worked through, but more along the lines of what about looking at a word and seeing one of the other 20 meanings it may have rather than the one I have fixated on in my own mind.

9. If you look at what I said, it was in response to Weaver. I said I understand the mechanism of taking a letter, then the next unused letter, blah, blah, blah. My overall contention is that THERE IS NO MECHANISM beyond that. Just find a place to start and pick letters in a row, or down, or backward. And that is not solving a puzzle, it's just following the FB and other clues to find the starting points. And if Ron had not claimed that it was solvable without clues, maybe I wouldn't be as disappointed. People are looking for all kinds of references, red herrings, textual clues, movie and book citations and so on, but my belief is that there is no THERE there. In short, nothing to look for. There is no "why" and that is my belief.

10. When finding your way across the map remember that the first is equal to the last....was that just for chapter one or every chapter?