# Thread: CHAPTER 4 - discussion and clues

1. As the book says, "Start at the Needle", then go back to the beginning.

2. Originally Posted by bookworm660
As the book says, "Start at the Needle", then go back to the beginning.
That instruction, if it is an instruction, and if it is an instruction for this chapter, lies within Hell's Backyard. The story says it is called that for a reason.

One possible interpretation is that it's called Hell's Backyard because like the devil it's leading you astray. It's useless. A herring. In which case, we can't exactly believe anything written within it.

3. "to start" skip over then go back(to start). Go back to where you started(reverse) or go back until you get to the start of the chapter(which would mean you would have to go through the navajo code to reach the start of the chapter). Or, start and get the first ten keys, then go back to where you just started and get the next eight keys(since we know two are missing).
Cannot possibly imagine why this chapter has not been solved. After all, the answer is easy and the solution is simple. So we are told.

4. Originally Posted by Rx Jeff
"to start" skip over then go back(to start). Go back to where you started(reverse) or go back until you get to the start of the chapter(which would mean you would have to go through the navajo code to reach the start of the chapter). Or, start and get the first ten keys, then go back to where you just started and get the next eight keys(since we know two are missing).
Cannot possibly imagine why this chapter has not been solved. After all, the answer is easy and the solution is simple. So we are told.
Every day the solution becomes clearer and clearer. I have recently discerned several significant clues within the chapter which I believe tell you how to get the key sequences, and what to do with them and even the order of them in the answer. There are also many "red herrings", and false paths. The trick is to determine which is which. We will see how I make out this week with my submission.

5. Originally Posted by bookworm660
There are also many "red herrings", and false paths. The trick is to determine which is which. We will see how I make out this week with my submission.
For anything that you think is a clue, you need to:

a) Ask whether or not it is a clue for something. Difficult, but possible, if you cross-reference it with other suspicious data.

If yes:

b) Ask whether or not this probable clue is a clue for the current chapter. Keep in mind that unlike most treasure hunts where clues lead to one solution, the clues within this book lead to thirteen solutions (silvers + gold). This is by far the most difficult task in this book, and the one that has kept me for years from breaking this thing wide open.

If yes:

c) List all its possible interpretations, and use other data to help pin an actionable meaning down.

d) Apply that meaning to the ordering of a sequence of 20 integers.

It is NEARLY impossible to tell whether what you are reading is relevant for the current chapter or not, even with cross-referencing, because the symbolic relationship of cross-referencing can group hints together, but almost never allows for clear disambiguation. Why? Because the hunt is (mostly) text based, and the creativity of the human mind allows one to take any paragraph of text and find connections with almost any chapter and make all sorts of unintended connections.

The other major issue with any symbolic relationship is in determining the direction of that relationship. Given symbol S1 located in ChapterX and S2 located in ChapterY, is S1 helping to hint at pointer S2, or is S2 helping to hint at pointer S1?

A great example is that of "Hell". You've probably noticed that the symbol "hell" is used throughout this book and it clearly is being used to convey something, but it is absolutely, completely, impossible to conclude what its references mean:

(a) Like I mentioned above, "hell" could be a symbol of "being led astray". It's somewhere you don't want to be. It's something to avoid.

(b) Or, "hell" could mean "YOU'RE GETTING CLOSE!" You're HOT on the trail! You're getting warm! So (a) says avoid and (b) says follow. It's at this point I have to toss out "hell" entirely, because choosing the wrong interpretation completely kills any chance you have of solving anything.

(c) Or, it could simply be a connecting symbol to chapter 8, which deals entirely about "Hell's Gate", and thus "Hell" entities may be of some help later on.

(d) Or, it could refer to something else in the book related to a specific "wall", which some of you may or may not have found out. This, I suspect, has to do with the golden eagle solution (and probably a future chapter's solution).

(e) Other various interpretations, from numerology based thoughts on "hell" to religious, to symbols relating to omega (hell is an end), etc etc.

(f) Or, it could be nothing at all. The author might simply like using the word hell all over the place.

"It's called Hell's backyard for a reason" says Nadine.

If anyone has any idea, 3 years in, what that reason is, with a rational chain of logic, I'd love to hear it.

Of course, Hell is just the tip of the iceberg. Things get a lot more involved and get even more ambiguous when you start investigating other more tangled symbolic relationships.

The most infuriating are clear clues that tie a specific sequence to a specific idea but in the same general area or sentence there's something that says "wild goose chase" or a character says "but don't believe any of that!", where you simply can't tell whether that sentiment is intended or not. So, you have to throw that clue out. I have tossed out so many clues now simply because they're self-doubting it's not funny. When the clues themselves tell you not to trust them as being clues, you know you're in for a long haul.

So to answer Doc's long standing question, "are there clues in the book, or is it all just facebook", my answer is...

YES. Yes, the book is dripping with hints and clues. It's saturated with them. There are hundreds of recurring ideas and symbols and hints at what to do, where to do them, and in what direction.

But, if there's a way to actually tell whether something is trustable or not, and to know FOR SURE what specific sequence is being referenced, well, I haven't found it.

6. The first key found should be number 11.

7. Originally Posted by Rx Jeff
The first key found should be number 11.
Jeff,
And why do you say that?

8. 28 more rejections received. I'm fairly certain I've got the high score for most rejections at this point

9. Twenty-eight? How many chapters are you submitting each day?

10. Just C4 in this batch. 14 * 2 = 28 , as we are allowed 2 accounts per person.