# Thread: Chapter 5: Clues and Discussion

1. Originally Posted by Rx Jeff
If you are smart, you will wait until after he breaks for summer before you try to solve it. Might be enough clues by then.
Alpha is NASTY in this chapter. My goodness are there a lot of false paths. There are numerous potential starting points that have 5 or more different clues pointing to them, then some subtle hint somewhere says "Nope! That's actually all a big lie!". Except those hints are so subtle that most of the time they read as "Hey, that could be a lie... perhaps! Maybe!"

2. Going to put my takes on the clues out there so far. I'm trying not to 'over interpret' like we all did in the last chapter:

"the chapter number will play a critical role in where the treasure is at"... if it's anything like ch4 clue, it might mean Q5 is start of alpha or the first number is 5.

"the things you can't see which will make the difference"... need to use decoded text so either we use decoded poem text or decoded question text.

"the 4 most helpful numbers... add up to this total"... there will be 4 remaning numbers and if you add them up it will total the same as the numbers that make up that year.

"pound of feathers... pound of gold" ... hints at a conversion or caesar shift equal to the conversion between number of ounces used to weigh a pound of gold compared to normal ounces.

"if you come up with a result that is zero or less make sure not to use it" ... hints at subtractive caesar shift with no rollover like last chapter.

"you will have to do less to start" also suggests a subtractive caesar shift.

"one of the perfect square numbers remaining will help you on your way" ... couple this with the chapter number clue and my take is that this number is the letter before you apply the shift to get the chapter number as the first number for alpha.

Anyone else in a sharing mood?

3. Kazoo, I wish that I had something to share... I am taking a vacation from this hunt at the moment, just way too busy right now with family etc.

For now I have just been checking the facebook clues briefly, and browsing this forum from time to time.

I like your interpretation of the clues and I strongly agree with "trying not to 'over interpret' like we all did in the last chapter".

Beautiful post my friend!!! Good luck to you all!

4. I am only following this post to see how many months it will take of spoon-fed clues to solve chapter 5. Chapter 4 was 18 months and I am sure with only one remaining eagle, this chapter will be milked for all its worth.

5. Originally Posted by Rx Jeff
I am only following this post to see how many months it will take of spoon-fed clues to solve chapter 5. Chapter 4 was 18 months and I am sure with only one remaining eagle, this chapter will be milked for all its worth.
Not sure if I'll work beyond C5. I'm close to waving the white flag for good; the sheer amount of (undetectable) misdirection in the book just doesn't make for a very fair fight. Pity; it's all quite clever.

Determining the veracity of anything that doesn't obviously proclaim itself specifically as being true is nearly impossible. For example, I can't even work out if a wild goose chase is a good or bad thing. "Wild goose chase" by definition is a herring -- something that leads you astray. However, in C4 we had "Mother goose" providing us a helpful clue. So now geese are helpful. Why the inconsistency? Wild geese also appear in the "Land of the Silver Birch" song, where the poem relates silver (eagle?) with wild geese. But, wild goose chases are herrings. Or they're not. It's just impossible to tell.

This is just one of a large number of logically indeterminate symbols in use.

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Originally Posted by kazoo
Going to put my takes on the clues out there so far. I'm trying not to 'over interpret' like we all did in the last chapter:

"the chapter number will play a critical role in where the treasure is at"... if it's anything like ch4 clue, it might mean Q5 is start of alpha or the first number is 5.

"the things you can't see which will make the difference"... need to use decoded text so either we use decoded poem text or decoded question text.

"the 4 most helpful numbers... add up to this total"... there will be 4 remaning numbers and if you add them up it will total the same as the numbers that make up that year.

"pound of feathers... pound of gold" ... hints at a conversion or caesar shift equal to the conversion between number of ounces used to weigh a pound of gold compared to normal ounces.

"if you come up with a result that is zero or less make sure not to use it" ... hints at subtractive caesar shift with no rollover like last chapter.

"you will have to do less to start" also suggests a subtractive caesar shift.

"one of the perfect square numbers remaining will help you on your way" ... couple this with the chapter number clue and my take is that this number is the letter before you apply the shift to get the chapter number as the first number for alpha.

Anyone else in a sharing mood?
Not quite what I have.

-The chapter number is something that happens every chapter. Exactly 5 times you come across encrypted questions in each chapter.
-I don't see a Caesar cipher anywhere. You cant get less than zero or a negative number with a Caesar. You can subtract a fixed number, but likely not more than 6-8max, otherwise you can't get enough numbers. The obvious choices are 4 or maybe 5.
-i very much doubt 5 is the first number in the sequence. For Omega...perhaps maybe....
-pound of feathers clue along with several others is hinting at a particular question, but that in itself may not help you much
-quest for the best is the golden eagle. And furthermore, the best kind of gold is.......X

And now...for the real zinger that really sends you on the wild goose chase...
-The four numbers that add up to the goddess of liberty (or maybe the number digits) may simply be the FOUR (Think P>L or 16>12) items you need to subtract. Two for alpha, two for omega.
-I can assure you there are many ways to get the digits to add up, many solutions, and many seem to fit.
-the REAL problem is...what are the most important numbers on the chapter? The first four, the last four, the beginning and end of each half? Good luck, you are really going to need it.

7. Originally Posted by gizmo2337
Not quite what I have.

-The chapter number is something that happens every chapter. Exactly 5 times you come across encrypted questions in each chapter.
-I don't see a Caesar cipher anywhere. You cant get less than zero or a negative number with a Caesar. You can subtract a fixed number, but likely not more than 6-8max, otherwise you can't get enough numbers. The obvious choices are 4 or maybe 5.
-i very much doubt 5 is the first number in the sequence. For Omega...perhaps maybe....
-pound of feathers clue along with several others is hinting at a particular question, but that in itself may not help you much
-quest for the best is the golden eagle. And furthermore, the best kind of gold is.......X

And now...for the real zinger that really sends you on the wild goose chase...
-The four numbers that add up to the goddess of liberty (or maybe the number digits) may simply be the FOUR (Think P>L or 16>12) items you need to subtract. Two for alpha, two for omega.
-I can assure you there are many ways to get the digits to add up, many solutions, and many seem to fit.
-the REAL problem is...what are the most important numbers on the chapter? The first four, the last four, the beginning and end of each half? Good luck, you are really going to need it.
What I see happening again, is people are reading so much into, and over-analyzing, the FB clues that the clues become meaningless. "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". It is my opinion, the clues can be interpreted several different ways, but the answers are there, You just need to look at what the clue is saying. For example:
The four numbers that add up to the date of the goddess of liberty being installed. The chapter has several dates in it, maybe one of these dates might be important to working out the solution of the chapter.

Also some FB clues work in tandem with others to make sense of what they are tell you. Just keep reviewing the clues, and try to interpret different perspectives.

Good Luck.

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Kazoo and Gizmo,

I've been spending the majority of my time working on the overall puzzle as opposed to chapter 5, but if I'm doing it correctly, this is a couple of the things I've seen:

1. The year the statue was placed was 1888. The four most important numbers in my solution are -2,9,9,9. If that's correct, I don't know how we were supposed to figure that out within the confines of the clue.
2. ...you have to decipher this one to make it work. Again, if I'm doing it correctly, this 'one' it's referring to appears to be question 1 of chapter 9. The solution has three parts, and the answer labels them as a 'right one', a 'missing one', and an 'anagrammed one'
3. pound of feathers = pound of gold: 12 = 16. The relevant way of stating this: Question 12 = 6 missing first one. That question is the first step of my solution.

Doc

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I really didn't think I was over thinking the clues...
-the quest for the best...the Golden eagle. The best kind of Gold is 24kt Gold
-a pound of feathers or pound of gold. Same as the senior was ten more than the junior. L<P 12 < 16. 12 is less. You have to do less to start.
-take a look on the other side....of the coin maybe? It's 1924. If you subtract the other date 1933-1924=9. Also the remaining perfect square number is also 9.
-It's what you can't see that makes the difference. The decrypted questions. There is five.
-the four most important numbers are "probably" just the number of the questions you need. A-B=alpha C-D=omega. A+B+C+D=25. Piece of cake, except there is over 1000 possible combinations to try, and that assuming nothing is backwards.

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Originally Posted by Doc
Kazoo and Gizmo,
2. ...you have to decipher this one to make it work. Again, if I'm doing it correctly, this 'one' it's referring to appears to be question 1 of chapter 9. The solution has three parts, and the answer labels them as a 'right one', a 'missing one', and an 'anagrammed one'
Doc
Using only C5 questions, I would think the most logical choices are:
-q1- One, the first question. The nature of the question is what you can't see.. or
-q3- the word "one" or
-q5- In the encrypted version I see "One". In the unencrypted version i see "own" which anagrams to "won" or one or
-q9- you will find "one" in the answer..or
-q12- similar to q5, the anagrammed "own"="won"="one"
-q13-the word "one" again.
-q20-in the second question after the cryptex, that you can't see in the book you will find "one"

I figure the answer is 9, since it fits best with all the clues...especially the loneliest number.