# Thread: Reverse Engineering the Solution

1. Good Twelever Gold
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Originally Posted by Lobster
Perhaps. How would you ever get that pre-solution though?
What is the "clever relationship" which maps the numbers to something usable?
I'll give my own interpretation, but has nothing to do with PI. I'm omitting certain parts for now, because it may play into chapter 6.

Starting with the Cryptex in chapter 4:
Q13 What bridge from another country was shipped stone by stone... London Bridge. What is the name of the needle in the story from this chapter - Weaver's
I've highlighted the important parts. First, the word "stone" was used twice, and we were told about "two's" in this chapter via facebook clues. Even the first digits of the first cryptex answer add to what we are looking for L+B=14. In chapter 3, we had two questions that helped. This was the big missing piece. Guess what...numbers 10 and 15 from chapter 3 where used again in chapter 5, as they add up to 25
Q10 How many full moons are there in a month containing a blue moon?
Q15. In 1996 it was reported that the world's largest blue saphire was up for auction..
The cryptex, two words and two questions from C3 helped us choose C4Q14 in my opinion. Knowing that we had to use encrypted questions helps because of the answers to the other choices (disregard one or two to get the start lit)
Q6 - Camels
Q20 - 3794 = CGID
They all start with C. In fact, Q6 even partially spells out the hint again for us with the word Color.

C4Q14 - What blue semi precious gem stone is used in jewelry coming from Arizona - Turquoise
Now how do you discover the rolling over? I have no idea, other than it was suggested in the other three encrypted question answers. We probably needed a facebook clue for that part unless you are really clever.

2. The problem with the reverse engineering is that I do not think there is an actual way to solve any chapter without some Facebook clues. If someone was able to find a correlation that worked between the end of chapter questions, cryptex and optic cross clues, then all of the chapters would be rapidly solved.
Each chapter is stand alone in its ability to be solved. So far, every chapter has been solved using Facebook clues alone.

3. Good Twelever Gold
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Originally Posted by Rx Jeff
The problem with the reverse engineering is that I do not think there is an actual way to solve any chapter without some Facebook clues. If someone was able to find a correlation that worked between the end of chapter questions, cryptex and optic cross clues, then all of the chapters would be rapidly solved.
Each chapter is stand alone in its ability to be solved. So far, every chapter has been solved using Facebook clues alone.
I have a feeling you may need the previous chapter answer to move on to the next chapter, so the rapid solving chapter argument may not hold.

Directly from the website:
The clues to getting the correct sequence are hidden in the chapters, questions, on our web site, and the sponsors' web sites.
Recently, I've found more evidence from the chapters, and not just the questions. The clues are in other chapters, but they are not scattered as one would think.

Clues for Chapter 5:
Charlie rode his horsse toward the house, marvelling again at the bebauty of it: the wide porches, the windows with reeal glass to reflect the sunlight, the stately cpolumns that rose toward the sky.
It means, " Mel grinned, his optimism fully restored, "that wherever 'there' is, there's more."
Thus the California Gold Rush ended, though much more gold was recovered in later years using more sophisticated techniques.
Clues for Chapter 4:
Hammett reportedly based his fictional Falcon on a late 17th-century ceremonial pouring vase in the form of a hawk made for Count George William von Kniphausen; this piece, which still can be seen at Chatsworth House in Devonshire, England, was encrusted with emeralds, amethysts, sapphires and garnets, but it bears little resemblance to the iconic statuette of the film.
Sometimes I still hear him laughing. Late at night, when the moon is sleeping. Can you hear him?
How many full moons are there in a month containing a blue moon?
On the 30th Anniversary of man's landing on the moon, the Liberty Bell 7 space capsule was recovered 5km below the ocean's surface. What was the name of the astronaut who flew it?
In 1996 it was reported that the world's largest blue sapphire was up for auction and was expected to sell for many millions of dollars.
Clues for both:
Their suspicions apparently were confirmed when they found a layer of flagstones a few feet below the surface and logs at intervals of every ten feet or so;

So, it seems there is linkage to the chapter text. Sounds random? Go look where the above is found, and it may not seem so random after all. Might even get you started on the next chapter.

4. Yes, you're on the right track, Gizmo...

There are hundreds upon hundreds of "hints" sprinkled all throughout the book. I have made several HUNDRED relationships between different bits of text in the book. There are many external references too to other things both in and out of the hunt texts.

It works the same for the facebook clues too. I am fairly certain that the reason that a good number of the facebook clues make little sense is that they too are providing hints for other chapters as well.

It's pretty clear to me what Ron is TRYING to do in the book. It's all pretty cool actually.

The problem is that it would be hard enough if all of these hints were wrapped around just 1 single solution. But when you're talking about 12 different solutions all mashed together it's just orders of magnitude too difficult.

For example, from tying together odds and ends in the book I am fairly certain I know 2 or 3 methods that future chapters use. I think I have worked out roughly what many of the ciphers used are. The problem is that it is nearly impossible to tie down any bit of "figured out" information to a particular chapter. For example, I thought that "question text" was used in a chapter back in C2. But nothing tied that idea specifically and unambiguously to chapter 4. There are many hints that questions are used *somewhere*, but nothing that definitively ties that method to chapter 4. This is endlessly frustrating, because even when you work out something you can't really use it because everything is mushed together.

I think I know roughly how those "planet" symbols work (well, for a good chunk of the book at the very least). I think I know precisely why A=1,B=2 was used for chapter 1, and why capitals were used for chapter 2, etc. I think I know roughly where the keys for chapter 6 are, and think I've narrowed chapters 8 and 12 down to only a couple of options. Unfortunately, knowing stuff doesn't really matter when a tossed in ceasar-X is used in a cipher and barely mentioned anywhere. Any single tiny detail wrong derails a chapter solution.

This means that you need to have *perfect* understanding about *every* aspect of a chapter to have a shot at getting a chapter right without FB clues.

It is becoming slightly more manageable as chapters get won, as we've only got 7 different solutions mushed together (assuming you can detangle 1-5, which even in retrospect and with knowledge of the answer is extremely difficult to do). But, still an exceedingly difficult prospect.

5. Good Twelever Gold
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I'll be adding two more points that will clear the confusion.

Just one for now though. The archives have been greatly underestimated. The archives are a function of 12, just like the twelve chapters in the book. They can also wrap to 24, just like 24 hour time. They can also map to months of the year, and a few other things that have to do with 12.

For chapter 4:
20-8-Q5- September 1997 - Search set for lost city of Atlantis
14-2-Q15- march 2006 - smallest book: up for auction
22-10-Q16- november 2004 - in the footsteps of alexander the great
The numbers are the clock time in 24/12 hours time followed by question number. Both the alpha and omega questions are there. Both of them add up to 22, which is the other archive question. ironically, the last Q16 was also the last key for C4. This is part of your USS Minnesota BB-22 clue.

For chapter 5:
13-1-feburary Q14 - japanese treasure unearthed
17-5-june Q3 -crazy horse work marks 50
18-6-july - Q7 Coin with a storeid past sold for 12m
18-6-july - Q6- Capsule recovered
Q3, first question
number 14 (the WWII question - filthy 13), the first key for omega
There were tons of hints for Q7. Twice as lucky. Pour more on. The senior brother was ten...pound of feathers or pound of gold. Omega was simply Q12, as bolded in the archives. Both the archives at 6 o'clock add up to 12. Open it up in the archives and look for yourself how big the number 12 is in Q7 inside the archives! lol
"Perhaps" the first key from alpha came from chapter 4, where Q15 is used from the 5x5 book to help with chapter 5 first key of alpha.

The number 25 was supposed to be realized from the smithy code cipher (also used in Q12). 25 also may mean 25% if you are looking at the clock (imagine time of 3 o'clock or 3-12). 25 can also be thought of as a quarter. Heck, the cryptex told us in the second part to use mount rushmore, so how hard should chapter 5 really have been? The difficulty was in the cipher method.

6. Originally Posted by gizmo2337
For chapter 4:
The numbers are the clock time in 24/12 hours time followed by question number. Both the alpha and omega questions are there. Both of them add up to 22, which is the other archive question. ironically, the last Q16 was also the last key for C4. This is part of your USS Minnesota BB-22 clue.
Not sure what usable information you think you can get from any of this though?

Yes, those 3 articles are referenced in the questions for C4. But... so what?
There doesn't seem to be any pattern in your observations.

For "search set", you are saying that because the article is at 8 oclock, that "8" or "20" is important. But why do you choose 8? Why not 20? And why is this omega and not alpha? It would be just as rational to say "alpha is q20!" or "omega is q20!" or "alpha is 8!" or "omega is 8!". Clearly nothing unambiguous.

For "smallest book", you are saying that because the article is at 2 oclock that "2" or "14" is important. But why do you choose 14? You chose 8 earlier, so to be consistent you'd have to choose 2. And why is this alpha and not omega?

For "In the footsteps of alexander", you chose 22 o'clock (as opposed to 10 o'clock). But wouldn't the rational assumption for a solver if they are following your ideas above be therefore that question 10 is one of the important questions? What makes someone who doesn't know the answer believe that one specific interpretation of the date is a sum of two numbers?

There's just no consistency in these observations. Nothing that could be used to solve anything without knowledge of the answer.

Now, I do think that the archives are intended to be useful SOMEHOW, but not in this manner. But what that true manner is remains a mystery. The fact that we can't work it out knowing the answer doesn't bode well for future chapters.

7. Good Twelever Gold
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Originally Posted by Lobster
Not sure what usable information you think you can get from any of this though?

Yes, those 3 articles are referenced in the questions for C4. But... so what?
There doesn't seem to be any pattern in your observations.

For "search set", you are saying that because the article is at 8 oclock, that "8" or "20" is important. But why do you choose 8? Why not 20? And why is this omega and not alpha? It would be just as rational to say "alpha is q20!" or "omega is q20!" or "alpha is 8!" or "omega is 8!". Clearly nothing unambiguous.

For "smallest book", you are saying that because the article is at 2 oclock that "2" or "14" is important. But why do you choose 14? You chose 8 earlier, so to be consistent you'd have to choose 2. And why is this alpha and not omega?

For "In the footsteps of alexander", you chose 22 o'clock (as opposed to 10 o'clock). But wouldn't the rational assumption for a solver if they are following your ideas above be therefore that question 10 is one of the important questions? What makes someone who doesn't know the answer believe that one specific interpretation of the date is a sum of two numbers?

There's just no consistency in these observations. Nothing that could be used to solve anything without knowledge of the answer.

Now, I do think that the archives are intended to be useful SOMEHOW, but not in this manner. But what that true manner is remains a mystery. The fact that we can't work it out knowing the answer doesn't bode well for future chapters.
Ok, I'll drop the bomb then!! The second part of my observation.

The first two keys of the solutions are also equal to two of the five encrypted questions. You never know which ones, but if you disregard one or two and get your start lit, you will be on your way.

8. Originally Posted by gizmo2337
Ok, I'll drop the bomb then!! The second part of my observation.

The first two keys of the solutions are also equal to two of the five encrypted questions. You never know which ones, but if you disregard one or two and get your start lit, you will be on your way.
So if we go back and look at the solutions of the first 5 chapters, then we will see that the first 2 keys of each solution are two of the encrypted questions at the end of each chapter? Now that is a great find.

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Originally Posted by Rx Jeff
So if we go back and look at the solutions of the first 5 chapters, then we will see that the first 2 keys of each solution are two of the encrypted questions at the end of each chapter? Now that is a great find.
So what am I missing? The first two keys for chapter 1 were 1, 20. Chapter 1 question 20 was encrypted but question 1 was not.

10. Good Twelever Gold
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Originally Posted by dawnplayer8
So what am I missing? The first two keys for chapter 1 were 1, 20. Chapter 1 question 20 was encrypted but question 1 was not.
It would be too easy for every chapter to be the same. I'm proposing that we are progressing in sets of three (chapters) and (keys)...or a trilogy. Chapter 6 I think will be the last chapter of this trilogy. If you make this assumption, then I've already given you enough to start on C6 with no facebook clues.

For chapter 1, I would read the answer differently. The cryptex is talking about a fighter pilot charlie brown. That question is answered in the archives in the first month. To start...start at the beginning.

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