# Thread: Chapter 6 - Clues and Discussion

1. Originally Posted by gizmo2337
Anyone think that more than one cipher is used?
... depends. If you used poem letters (which were obtained by using a Playfair cipher) and then shifted them, would you count that as 2 ciphers used?

2. Originally Posted by kazoo
... depends. If you used poem letters (which were obtained by using a Playfair cipher) and then shifted them, would you count that as 2 ciphers used?
Yeah, I would consider that one cipher. Doing what you suggest doesn't take into account "differences" or "directions of spin" or TDYs or incrementing 5 or adding 1 or anything else. In order to work in some of that stuff you need at least 2 cipher steps. I can't make the clues work with anything fewer than 3.

3. E=5
10+5=5
21-6=5
10-6=5
So 15=E
And 15=E
And 4=E

Now that is some kind of new math.

4. Chirp, chirp.
Has everyone moved on?

5. Junior Twelever +1 Bronze
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Originally Posted by Rx Jeff
Chirp, chirp.
Has everyone moved on?
I am still working at it. The worst part is that you can think that you are so close to a solution based on the clues and there is no way to confirm it.

6. Getting the hang of it. Copper
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Hi all - have been following along and stumped with the multiple clues that seemingly confirm and contradict each other. My buddy and I have dissected this one as best as we can we find we're not able to generate too many new possibilities because the clues "seem" to be variations of past clues. Have also noticed that the message boards are very quiet and that either interest has waned (hopefully not!) or people are just stumped and no longer prioritizing their quest. So let's shake this up a little. Here are a few ideas we are currently looking at. Hopefully they help someone make that final push. Any comments or shares of other ideas would be welcome

We believe that a playfair box is required to solve something. Clues such as 5 to the power of 2 (ie: 25), one solider lost (ie: drop the Z, merge the I/J, etc.), adding 5 going down the stairs, all point to the importance of a playfair. If no playfair is required then that was one hell of a wild goose chase. Have not yet figured out if the playfair is needed to solve the first 10, the last ten or the whole 20.

After googling nearly every forest in the world, our best guess at a tree cutter is Paul Bunyan. For a brief moment I tried to convince my buddy that it could be George Washington and his cherry tree stint, but it was one tree and it wasn't his job. But he chopped a tree. Is Paul Bunyan a letter pair for PB in the playfair? Is Babe the Blue Ox relevant? Why is "character" in quotes?

Some questors have been 'misled'. After lots of wondering, our latest hypothesis was that this is not about us, but rather about Mel Fisher's group who were looking in the wrong spot for the treasure. He was the ultimate questor and he was misled. That pointed us to the second half of the chapter. Not sure how that helps, other than continuing to put the focus on Mel or to suggest to start in the second half of the text.

Have not figured out the Greek references, assuming that they are Greek references. Socrates, Xantippe, marathon. If not a Greek theme, then any ideas?

The number 16 could help you get started. Letter P = 16, assuming an unshifted substitution. Also fits with starting with the lumberjack. P (aul) Bunyan.

Clues pointing to differences are still a question mark for us. Are we meant to subtract something, is this a metaphor for using a mirror image of something?

In the Noah clue, the text reads "these famous pairs". Knowing that Ron is quite specific and deliberate in his language, using the word "these" specific pairs told us to find the characteristic of the pairs. Animals? Seven? Clean? (google Noah and you'll understand my questions). But should it be interpreted as a simpler observation that Noah had pairs and therefore reinforcing our expected use of pairs in the solution (ie: playfair pairs?)

How is TDY relevant? Y is outside a normal 1-20 (A-T) but could be the last letter of a playfair box is you drop the Z. Or, T(20) + D(4) = 24. But add the mysterious 1 and you get Y(25). Or is that overthinking. Is it really a reference to Today and meant to draw our attention to Mel as with many other clues?

If the whole thing starts with T, then do we abandon PB? The second half of the text starts with T. Does that mean we should start there. If so, do we work forwards or backwards (direction of spin).

Is We the people... the opening of the US Constitution, or the song? The US Constitution feels right because of how it works in other codes, ciphers and movies, but the song We The People is from a singing group called A Tribe called Quest. Quest. Seriously? We the people is a song from their 6th album (Atocha is chapter 6). Coincidence? Digging a little deeper we see that the lyrics are R rated which led us to believe Ron wouldn't use that in our Quest. But there are lots of coincidences.

OK, that's good for now. Hopefully there are some lines of thought that might be interesting to some people, and maybe jumpstart this group.

Good luck and good hunting. If any of this leads to a win, someone owes us 2 beers and a shout out. We'll do the same. We're in Montreal

7. Hi Glace and thanks for sharing. I don't want you to get too far off track with Paul Bunyan so I'll suggest you google "army punishment cut down trees" and see what "character" was "disciplined"... it's a "good place to start" too. Ron has a military background and likes to use those kind of references. You might want to google "military terms TDY" too although I haven't figured if/how that plays out.

8. Based on the clues to date and there are over 50 of them, you should know exactly where to start.
Problem is, then what? And where does omega start

9. Originally Posted by kazoo
Hi Glace and thanks for sharing. I don't want you to get too far off track with Paul Bunyan so I'll suggest you google "army punishment cut down trees" and see what "character" was "disciplined"... it's a "good place to start" too. Ron has a military background and likes to use those kind of references. You might want to google "military terms TDY" too although I haven't figured if/how that plays out.
Hey kazoo, i had worked out the character... not sure how he relates to "good place to start"?

Ive got a lot of ideas about the solution, but it is extremely hard to know if on the right track. As others have pointed out the biggest problem is knowing what the playfair grid is. What password, and which of the 26 letters is dropped... i can make good guesses about that, but no way to tell if correct or not. And if you've got the wrong grid, it isn't going to matter where you start.

10. Originally Posted by Lobster
Hey kazoo, i had worked out the character... not sure how he relates to "good place to start"?

Wasn't "The whole thing starts with" (insert character's name here) given as a clue on March 1?

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