# Thread: Chapter 6 - Clues and Discussion

1. Would like to see who is still working on this hunt even with no new clues since June.

2. Still working on it some. Submitting every now and then. Following different logic to get the texts. Wonder if Ron is going to let us know what he has in mind for this hunt.

3. Getting the hang of it. Copper
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Happy New Year all. Still working on this as well. Am trying to focus on the beginning clues because apparently we had enough clues back then. Some thoughts re the clues for the group in case it helps close this chapter:

I am assuming all references to 5 or 25 are for the playfair. Five to the power of two, room for 25 in this room, adding 5 when stepping down, etc. I am also assuming the playfair has no key from the clue about being in the same order and they have / will be (suggesting the traditional form alphabet). Plus, there are so many key words that can come from the chapter that it would be a near impossibility to solve the playfair when we don't have either a concrete key word or the exact letters to input into the playfair. So my playfair box is A to Y. No Z, due to the Zantippe is not, clue.

Also supporting the playfair are all the references to pairs. 2 x 2, Noah (although if Noah is for pairs, I think the clue is poorly written), and the 0,1 / 2,3 clue showing pairs of numbers.

Haven't figured out if the clues relating to differences (diff, difference, those clues with a subtraction) are meant to be mathematical or numerical differences, or other differences - ie: promoting any differences between the historical and present day sections of the story. I'm going with math, but then there aren't that many numbers, unless you look at page numbers or the 1-20 questions for the chapter.

April 5th clue: MOIJZGZHLPEFDH. I have not solved. Any help would be appreciated. I have most other clues solved, so if anyone needs a nudge in return, feel free to ask.

Re: clues about T is a god place to start, and start counting from 0, and 16 could help get you started. That's a lot of references to the same thing. I am liking the T and 0 references, because assuming the chapter questions are required to solve this, then Q20 (20 is value = T), when working backwards (direction of storm) starts with 0. I don't have much more than that, but it's a coincidence, or convenient starting point that reverse engineers to the clue. 16 is still a mystery to me in that vein.

We take All Five Kings to be no particular revelation, except pointing us to the playfair with no key. A, F and K are all vertically positioned in order when no key is in the playfair. To add a twist, should the word TODAY be the key, AFK are all still vertically aligned.

V+ zero = W is suggesting a +1 shift, which is consistent with other clues about adding 1. If the puzzle is not that difficult ("don't make this so difficult") then shifting makes obvious sense. What is shifted, is the question. Items within the first 10, the second 10? Both? Are the shifted letters meant to go into the playfair? Or is the playfair for the non-shifted 10?

The clue from Nov. 23: "Take the numbers 2 by 2 and use the special 25 to get the final answer" threw me off, and caused me to rethink. Are we meant to only search out numbers, and then convert them to letters (if so, how?) and then run those letters in the playfair? Let's assume so, the obvious choice are the chapter questions. But there are only 20, and we need to find the differences, so that leaves us 10 numbers. At best, that gives us 10 letters, and assuming there are no repeats, only half the solution. Any thoughts?

Have seen lots of discussion about the XXX6XXX clue. I've adopted a simpler approach. It just means there are an equal number of letters in the first half and the second half. I think the 3 letter Xs surrounding the number 6 is just a general reference to the solution having equal parts on either side of Chapter 6. Although a few years ago, 6 x's, does sound like the word SUCCESS if you say it enough.

The March 22 clue Gr_ _ _ _ _ / etc was (is) a tough one. But having nearly given up on Ch 6, I started Ch 7 and answered the chapter questions. Coincidentally, the format of the input template for the answers to chapter questions is also a series of dashes _ _ _ _ _ . So, coupled with the 'using the numbers' theory, the clue Gr _ _ _ _ could be pointing us to do something with the chapter questions. Admittedly, it's a little loose and reverse engineered. Have no idea how the Gr or other letters fit in.

That's all for now. Hope this provides some inspiration to anyone still playing Chapter 6. Feel free to dispute anything in the above, if nothing else it could promote some out of the box thinking.

Good luck to all remaining bird hunters!

4. April 5th clue using every other letter spells MIZZLED and goes with a later clue about questors being misled.
I believe we go left to right to solve then back to start of the question. Yes, it is in the questions again for a third time.
But a playfaur with no keyword? The favorite saying is a must. So I believe it may be used with a playfair grid without letter z.

5. Originally Posted by Rx Jeff
April 5th clue using every other letter spells MIZZLED and goes with a later clue about questors being misled.
Also, the name is spelled 'Elizabeth' in the poem but question 15 spells it 'Elisabeth'... maybe it means use Z in place of S in playfair grid or solution? Could also tie into clue 'why is it always the first person that counts'... the 'Elizabeth' spelling comes first in the book. And there is the clue 'only one soldier is missing'... soldier starts with S.

6. Getting the hang of it. Copper
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Hi Jeff and Kazoo, a few thoughts on the posts. Mizzled is interesting, especially since we are debating the use of Z in the solution. I am however surprised that Ron would not have used all the letters in the clue and hoped for us to only extract mizzled. I believe that the other letters would have to be purposeful as well. That, or mizzled is a coincidence and we need to use all the letters in the clue for a different decryption. I'm working on the non-mizzled letters...

Re: order. Ordering left to right isn't in any of the clues, ie suggesting normal reading text, and in fact, have seen the opposite, with clues referring the direction of spin, and the earth's rotation. For those reasons, I think we should be considering at least some as right to left. But... I actually think both directions are important. Another clue talks about the child's lollipop, and who does one eat a lollipop... from the outside toward the center. So it makes sense that half of the solution is right to left, and the other half left to right, so that the solution goes from outside in. The "keep on going" part of the clue is still on my pending list.

I think one solider missing is another reminder that we need to find 25 letters and not 26. Consistent with the use of playfair and dropping a letter (presumably Z), and putting I and J in two boxes, rather than combining I/J in one box to fit the full 26 letters in the playfair grid. I like the observation of alternate Elizabeth spellings, again revolving around a pezky "Z".

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Originally Posted by kazoo
Also, the name is spelled 'Elizabeth' in the poem but question 15 spells it 'Elisabeth'... maybe it means use Z in place of S in playfair grid or solution? Could also tie into clue 'why is it always the first person that counts'... the 'Elizabeth' spelling comes first in the book. And there is the clue 'only one soldier is missing'... soldier starts with S.
There is no correction in the errata of the book for Elisabeth. In the movie, it is actually spelled "Elizabeth".

XXX6XXX could be so many things.

Is it the size imprinted on the inside of a Steson cowboy hat?

Or is it a word with F in the middle, like surFace or driFted or melFish. Interestingly, the word "surface" appears in all 3 articles in the archives section.

On another note, the optic cross says: 2. Q9 - Treasure hunt archives. Although there is an article in the archives about that question, the answer is NOT in the archives.

MOIJZGZHLPEFDH
The only two solves I've seen is the skip cipher MIZZLED... and the subtracting of letters in pairs which gives BAGHDAD. Baghdad seems odd, but could be hinting "middle east". I've tried all sorts of Vigenere attempts, and it just isn't a long enough sequence to do that without using an obvious keyword. If you want to take a shot at this yourself, I'd recommend this:
sichere IT - guarded IT

There is so many conflicting clues, that it's hard to make sense of what to do. Surely we don't do a shift, plus put a keyword into the grid and do a playfair. That just sounds too hard.

We are looking for more than one number combination. Combination means 2 or more in a sequence. I can't help but think it means there are two playfair grids, with two different passwords, but again that sounds too hard. There must be something simpler that has been overlooked...

8. Getting the hang of it. Copper
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Hi Gizmo and gang

I tend to agree that two playfairs and two keys is more difficult than it should be, and if we take Ron's clue at face value about 'don't make this so difficult', then finding 2 keys without any very direct clues to confirm the keys (beyond a reasonable doubt), seems too difficult. Playfair is indisputed due to the encrypted clue about using playfair to solve the chapter, but I think it's only one grid. Getting the letters to put into the playfair is likely the result of a different operation, which is how we are interpreting the clue about looking for more than one number combination.

Any thoughts on the 0,1 - 2,3 - 4,5 clue? The rhyming meter is interesting but I'm not sure how that can help. It reinforces starting from zero, and shows numbers in pairs (consistent with pairs clue). The words in each line of the poem contain a creative representation of the number. Won = 1. To =2. For = 4. That line of thinking falls apart in the 6,7 line, and even then, is that even the right way to go?

Regarding the boiling it all down clue, we're taking the approach that something is reducing (ie: liquid in a pot), which supports the "difference" clues, in a mathematical sense, as opposed to differences being variations in characteristics.

Last one for today is the marathon clue. We're seeing that as a requirement that the solution of 10 & 10 is not found in a short, concise 10 & 10 in the story (or in the questions), but rather in a long, drawn out set of letters that could span many pages of the story until you finally get your 10th letter in each half of the solution. We've thought at about marathon being references to athletics, specific numbers like 42.2km or 26.2miles, and even a Greece influence, but those got us nowhere.

Bye for now

9. With regards to the “spin” in the solve. Look at the capital letters in the Dany clue and refer to the clue about going back to the start after going through the storm. This is how I believe Ron is coming up with a spin. Go through an entire line then when you get to the end, go back to the start of that line you were using.

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Hello all,
Just wanted to add my \$.02. We still have a lot of unknowns, for example 1.Do we use the questions for the solution text? 2.A spin is involved but do we use clockwise or counter-clockwise? 3.Although I think we need to use a playfair, is there a keyword used? 4.What letter is eliminated from the 25 grid playfair square? 5.How do you start at zero? 6.Is the solution pulled out as singles or as pairs? 7.How can we do any of this without making it very complicated?