# Thread: Chapter 6 - Clues and Discussion

1. Socrates clue is a reference to Socratic questioning. A hint that it is in the questions. Not sure about the marathon clue except that I think we have to use a question twice to get the answer. If we use pairs of letters from a question and that question has an odd number of letters in it, then you would have to use it twice to get to the end.

Is this letter P? Is it question 16? Is it page 116?

3. Junior Twelever +1 Bronze
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Hi all,
I am just going to continue on with the questions I had asked earlier: 4.What letter is eliminated from the 25 grid playfair square?
If J is combined with I that would seem that this is the most common method of setting up a playfair cipher and the least difficult. This is also supported by the solve of Ch. 6 question 5 in the book. The Caesar shift with numbers to solve Ch.6 question 5 has J=0(and E=5).
Other possibilities include dropping the letter Z. This is supported by the All Five Kings clue, J would have to be used to line up the A,F, and K with no keyword used. And supported by the Oct 26th, 2016 clue....The 25 you seek are in the same order as they have been and will forever be. It is also supported by the Zantippe clue where the spelling is changed to Xantippe.
Another possibility is to drop the letter Q. Interestingly "the" is coded as "Q25" in Ch.6 question 5.

On a side note, I was listening to a weather report earlier in the week and the forecaster mentioned looking for " vorticity advection" this is also known as "Cyclonic Vorticity Advection" (CVA). Apparently in the Northern Hemisphere this is positive and has a counterclockwise spin, while in the Southern Hemisphere it is negative and has a clockwise spin. So positive means CCW and negative means CW? So do we need to use both spins to solve?

Again I am willing to work with anyone just send a PM. I personally don't think that this chapter will be solved without a straightforward clue or two.

Good Luck all,

4. Originally Posted by dawnplayer8
The Caesar shift with numbers to solve Ch.6 question 5 has J=0(and E=5).
I wouldn't call it a Caesar shift but I agree the variation of the actual method that includes numbers has J=0 and E=5 (but no letters are dropped).

5. So many clues point to question 5. So why hasn’t anyone solved it?
A playfair has to be used according to the Joy clue and some sort of shifting of the letters by way of the boiling it all down and the two ckuex that show A equals zero.
What is up with the kids and the new math 10-6=5.
Or 4=5. If A is zero then indeed number 4 is letter E.

6. Getting the hang of it. Copper
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Hi all, we're a bit behind, so let's see if we can address the last week's comments. For us, Socrates didn't point to the solution being in the questions, but rather supported the 'difference' clues. We understood the Socratic method to result in finding out an answer to a problem by deduction, which was a symbolic parallel to mathematical differences. With more recent clues suggesting finding numbers, and displaying answers to the chapter questions, it makes good sense that Socrates is less about difference and more about question.

The number 16 to us is a pointer that we need to start the first half of the solution in the Mel Fisher half (as opposed to the Fray Pedro half). Sixteen is used a few times in the Mel half and never in the Pedro half.

For the 10-6=5 and all other related math problems, I'm not sure that we need to do the math. Our current hypothesis is that while it appears to be math, we might want to look at the parts rather than the whole. If we isolate the parts of the equation, then "10" could mean the first 10, "-" could me go backwards (ie direction of storm), etc. It's not a perfect solution because I don't know what the 6 and 5 could mean. Just putting something hopefully interesting...

Jeff, not sure what you by not having solved Question 5. Ron gave us the answers to the questions, so perhaps I'm misunderstanding. Can you elaborate?

And adding the following: For us, the 2 clearest, most definite clues were when Ron used the word MUST in the clues. The first was the shift that said Using Playfair is a Must, and something about "the favourite saying is a must". That MUST language should focus us to a Playfair and Today's the Day. If MUST is used in a different context, or if Playfair / Today's the Day is not how we needed to interpret those clues, then the path to victory is going to take another 2 years

7. It seems we know which questions to use, but nobody has solved all twenty keys.

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Hello all,
Just going to continue on with my point 5: 5.How do you start at zero? I am not really sure what this means. The clues are "When counting to solve this chapter starting with zero is a must.", "0,1,- The Eagle will be won 2,3, - It is easy to see 4,5, - Going for a drive 6,7, - When you get there you will be in heaven" and "V + 0 (zero) = W". It is likely that Jeff is right and and this just means a Caesar shift +1. I am not sure if the shift is done before or after the use of the playfair cipher.
I could also see it meaning we have to add an additional number or letter to the start point, shifting the start point back one space.

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated, because I don't know.

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When I first looked at the Socrates clue, the word "intelligent", was a nudge toward IQ, perhaps suggesting Q into I for a playfair grid. Many clues later, it seems more likely that by knowing that you know nothing, you actually know 1 thing. Sort of suggesting zero is one, or a shift of one. V+zero=W. The direction of spin, All Five Kings, Another way to get to the solution is to add one. Boil it all down... I'm leaning towards spin being... encrypt/decrypt type lue. A forward and down direction is encrypt. Backwards and up is decrypt. Since we have clues for both, perhaps we use both? Assuming the oddball configuration of Z missing in the grid, and no keyword: BC->AB for decrypt or BC->CD for encrypt. Similarly, for FK->AF and FK->KP if you are going up/down the stairs. With the empty grid, we could very well start with something like BC->AB, which is also a shift of minus 1, even though it's still using a playfair grid. Or maybe its the other way and we just add one? Certainly we can't boil it down and just add one though. It sure feels like we need to do both.

10. If letter A equals zero and letter B equals one then not even born to start is correct. B equals one or a shift of minus one. This boils it down.
The clues say use a playfair. But any keyword? Who knows.
I wonder if anyone will even be around months from now when Ron decides what he is going to do with his hunt.