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Thread: Happy Thanksgiving

  1. #1
    cthree's Avatar
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    Default Happy Thanksgiving

    Happy Thanksiving everyone

    I've been looking for the right time to let you guys know how I feel about some things and Turkey Day has inspired me.

    First off let me explain to you why:

    I'm thankful you see... for Treasure Hunts. I love them. Always have. I like playing them. I like making them. I was inspired at an early age by Masquerade and the wonder of just the concept has never ceased to amaze me. What I'm going to try and explain to you all is going to be hard to understand. I ask you to please try to stand in my shoes for a second--and try to see things from my perspective.

    It's a tough job running a discussion forum objectively. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to jump in the fray and give my strong opinion about something. It has been a hard fought achievement to manage a truly open discussion forum that actually allows people to say literally whatever they want about anything they want without fear of retribution. What the current staff has created here is special and I am proud of it. It in fact is such a pure thing - that I am not compelled at all to defend any comments or theories (which are of course perfectly acceptable and have been posted MANY times besides recently) that may indicate any negative action on our part whatsoever. I can't tell you how proud I am of the Staff.

    That being said, I'll mention ScrollQuest. When they first hit the "scene" we contacted them and were really excited to find it being run by a really enthusiastic, young guy who was really into what he was doing. They had a really cool looking product, great art - and it being our "mission" to try and build up this genre here in the States - we naturally attempted to aquire some type of "partnership" with the new cool hunt. We made a forum for them, eventually becoming their "official" forum.

    Things went really great for a while - I got my hunt concept judged first by SQ (no, "obsidian dagger" has nothing to do with the idea i submitted), they seemed to be selling scrolls - yay the genre is buzzing.

    Then recently, things went downhill. The reason I mentioned it being hard to be objective is because I'm admitting a fault to you guys (no i'm not a robot omg) - I admit that i waited too long to make the call to pull sponsorship. I like Jason and Evan. I wanted it to work. I let my personal feelings get in the way of a rational decision.

    I'm simply going to reserve my judgement on all alleged matters but I do know that prizes and products haven't been delivered and customer service is very lacking. I know that the problems with ScrollQuest have escalated to a point where we (the staff not just I) feel we cannot continue to reccommend the Hunt to anyone.

    Now. We get to the actual point of my post

    I've tried to give a bit of my ATH passion background and some info about the SQ and 12 relationship to preface this "request" so I hope you take what I said into account while weighing this:

    Basically the idea is this. I understand why all the recent complaints have been made. If I was one of you that was owed a prize--I'd post 50 times a day cause this was my only outlet. I understand that, I do. I love free speech. I think it is right and justified for anyone who is not satisfied to use this forum to explain why so others can read. That is a good thing. And very, very permanent.

    That is what I need you guys to think about.

    Imagine a noob. She hears about ATH and is super excited. She opens a browser and finds Tweleve. She registers! The excitement is literally bubbling now--so many hunts! In her browsing she finds this forum. Now in one case--there could be a discussion leading into a community organized thread titled something like "LIST OF USERS WHO DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS HUNT" with a bunch of "signatures" in it. In that case she realizes (if there are a few names) that maybe this isn't a good one and continues on.

    Well in the situation we actually have here, (i'm not pointing any fingers, ok) she sees a whole forum full of negative posts, conspiracy theories that implicate not only winners, but players and even the staff of the site. Now I know that all of those were "theories" and that some were for fun. The problem is how permanent they and the negative non-informational posts are. They will never go away. That and the fact they will not be interpreted by a visitor as anything but "wow - dishonesty seems to abound here--this sucks."

    My point is this. I think we may be going a bit overboard with the negativity. Tweleve isn't about SQ. I know that you guys realize this. What I'm worried about is leaving a permanent mark here that leads noobs and casual users to believe that this whole system is flawed, everyone is out to get them, and the diamond is coal.

    I need your help to make an attempt to not let this be a stain on the face of the genre--need you to look at the big picture with me. Yeah it totally sucks what has happened here. But I also don't think posting about this here anymore is going to help. We have disassociated with SQ. I truly believe continuing to focus the attention of 12 onto this forum does none of us any good, and could be hurting things worse than we realize.

    I'm not saying don't post. i'm saying don't feed the fire--its all ash presently. I understand that this is asking alot of the people who are owed products and prizes. Out of respect for you we have created a section for hunts that are "Not Recommended". ScrollQuest will reside there until our members have been delivered what is owed to them and some questions are answered.

    We plan to do some fun Tweleve only hunts in the very near future to try and have some old fashioned fun--we'll just cut the middleman (author) out of the deal lol - straight from us to you.

    So yeah--I know this is weird coming from me as I usually try to keep to myself. Maybe try and give me the benefit of the doubt --I do work really hard to keep all this together and its not an easy job

    Thanks alot guys--

    cthree

  2. #2
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    Happy Thanksgiving, Tweleve.

    I thought everybody knew conspiracy theorists were crazy kooks, and nobody really believes them? That is why I title these whimsical threads "Conspiracy Theory X" and put them in a RustyNail.

    But as Deep Throat on The X-Files said, a lie is most cleaverly hidden between two truths. And that is the fun part. What is true and what is fiction? People seem to enjoy these topics until it points to them. Dragon commented that she enjoyed the posts, just keep the GaGas out of it. Conspiracy theories are dangerous fun, which is why I like them.

    Many of us have invensted considerable time on these hunts. I think everybody agrees the hunts are very good. After all this time, it is hard to let them go. Look at ATT; some people are still trying to solve puzzles for that when they don't even know for sure there are puzzles left to solve.

    Now cthree, you have thrown a new wrinkle into my planned The Obsidian Countdown vignette. ScrollQuest had promised to release their next scroll in one week. The details about it, and your involvement were very vague. We have many questions about this. And with the break between you and SQ, we have even more. You are asking us to step away from this. And to step away from the secrets.

    SQ could end all of this very easily. All they have to do is deliver the prizes. That's all. And yet, they don't. Why?

    -Rusty

    It's not a place, it's a yearning. It's not a race, it's a journey.

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    thank you for the wonderful job you (all staff) are doing!
    Can't think of much I am more thankful for than honesty
    Of course I am happy and thankful for family and health too,
    but honesty ranks way up there on the list of things I am thankful for!!!
    tweleve rocks! and the staff creates the motion here
    em - luanne

    imagination is the only weapon we have in the war against reality!

    success is simply getting up one more time than you fall

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollidaze39
    (((((((((((((TWELEVE STAFF)))))))))))))))))))))

    ditto.

  6. #6
    wilhouse's Avatar
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    there is a normal tendency to think of things as "mine". when the mrs. asks what I am doing, I say I am on my treasure hunt board. we forget that there's 13,000 users because we "see" the same names all the time (get a life people!!).

    putting scrollquest and winmyhome on the not recommended list is the right thing to do. admins of this site have a feduciary responsibility to alert users when they could be cheated. offering a hunt and not delivering the prizes is the worst cheat that there is in an ATH.

    I say that these actions give the hunt owners further incentive to get their acts together. we can still discuss our theories, rusty, but the users in general are now protected from them being scammed.

    I continue to respect tweleve and the admins for their being responsible to the users.

    wilhouse

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    Happy Thanksgiving to cthree, Tweleve, and the entire community of treasure hunters out there!

    cthree, I for one appreciate your post. Tweleve is a great armchair treasure hunting site. Tweleve does a great job in organizing the forum and finding hunts for us to participate in. It is also nice to know that those who run Tweleve sometimes participate in the hunts too! This just goes to show that these treasure hunts mean something to you too, not just those of us who gather here to discuss the hunts. And that is important. When SQ appeared in the ATH scene, I was excited about this new adventure. I was glad that Tweleve decided to set up a forum dedicated to SQ. You did a great job sponsoring them, and getting SQ to list Tweleve as their official forum on their website. But who could have predicted that things with SQ would have turned so sour? But like Rusty, I would like to know the inside story. Did Tweleve ever really try to resolve the problems with SQ? Did you step up to bat for us? Did you discuss with SQ the removal of them from the sponsored hunts status? Have you been in contact with them?

    I agree with your decision to move SQ to the "Non-Recommended" hunts category. I think that was a brilliant idea. It not only protects the newbies (as you mentioned) but it protects the rest of the Tweleve community. I was hoping that by removing SQ's sponsored status, it would nudge SQ to resolve all of their issues. (It didn't.) Now I am hoping that by placing them in the Non-Recommended category, it may help bring them around. But even if that does not occur for SQ, it could for future hunts. It also shows potential hunts that Tweleve is a professional and responsible forum. Tweleve doesn't support hunts that are not legitimate. And it will become public knowledge if a hunt turns into a scam.

    I also feel that we should be allowed to air our complaints about SQ, or any other treasure hunt if we feel that it is not being run properly. This warns the rest of the treasure hunting community to beware of certain hunts, and it alerts you, Tweleve, to any problems that arise. I know that lately the SQ forum has gotten to be very negative. But this is in no means a reflection on Tweleve. And I think that most people realize that, especially if they see that Tweleve has responded by placing a hunt in the Non-Recommended category. It shows that you have been looking out for your members.

    As you mentioned above, the posts are "permanent". And I think that they should be. Removing posts is like censorship. The only time the posts should be deleted is if the author requests that it be removed, or if the post contains inappropriate language, etc.. And since we are on that subject, Lafitte has brought up several times that there was a post by someone claiming to be a treasure hunter, when really it was probably Jason using his wife's computer. What has become of that post? If Jason asked for it to be removed, then that should have alerted Tweleve to the underhandedness of SQ.

    So, here I sit on Thanksgiving, having a conversation with Tweleve. If I didn't like Tweleve, I wouldn't be here. Tweleve has given me the opportunity to become friends with several members. And these treasure hunts would not be nearly as fun if I were to do them on my own. In fact, I might not do them at all if a forum such as this did not exist. Thanks Tweleve!

  8. #8
    cthree's Avatar
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    Quick comments in between bites of turkey-

    Quote Originally Posted by rdshackleford
    ScrollQuest had promised to release their next scroll in one week. The details about it, and your involvement were very vague. We have many questions about this.
    I understand you having questions. There are lots of things I'd like to know more about too. The trick with this one is Im not interested in talking about it. It is enough for me to say that my concept is proprietary and that ScrollQuest has no claim to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rdshackleford
    And with the break between you and SQ, we have even more. You are asking us to step away from this. And to step away from the secrets.
    Again I understand you having questions. What needed to be said has been said. What needed to be done has been done. I am not asking you to step away from the secrets. Im asking you to step away from the rumor mill, dude. If you really don't understand what I was trying to say above, then please re-read. If you are still lacking in comprehension--go eat Turkey and forget about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by beth
    But like Rusty, I would like to know the inside story.
    You guys make a cute couple

    Quote Originally Posted by beth
    Did Tweleve ever really try to resolve the problems with SQ?
    Of course. Many times.

    Quote Originally Posted by beth
    Did you step up to bat for us?
    Obviously?

    Quote Originally Posted by beth
    Did you discuss with SQ the removal of them from the sponsored hunts status?
    Yes.


    Quote Originally Posted by beth
    Have you been in contact with them?
    Not since moving the forum.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Tweleve doesnt have any "insider info" that makes all this make sense. It would be great if we had all of the answers but we dont. We have many of the same questions you do and hope (as we are sure you do) that one day we will have all of the answers.

    Until then,

    Thanks.

    PS - I really appreciate all of the supportive PM's--thanks for understanding what we are after here.

  9. #9
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    cthree and other twelve staff: I appreciate your comments. I must say that I for one never had any ill will towards you all. All my issues were with Scroll Quest and their lack of responsibility to their customers. There were so many coincidences that made most of us leary about them and gave rise to all the conspiracy theories. I was only voicing my opinion and did not intend to shine a bad light on Twelve. I apologize for this happening and am glad that you have still given us an area to continue to talk with each other. I for one am going to remain a member here and continue to support and recommend Twelve. Thanks again for your post.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by cthree
    Again I understand you having questions. What needed to be said has been said. What needed to be done has been done. I am not asking you to step away from the secrets. Im asking you to step away from the rumor mill, dude. If you really don't understand what I was trying to say above, then please re-read. If you are still lacking in comprehension--go eat Turkey and forget about it.

    You can't handle the truth!

    It's not a place, it's a yearning. It's not a race, it's a journey.

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