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Thread: Tormentum

  1. #501
    Shrike's Avatar
    Shrike is offline Junior Twelever Copper Shrike is an unknown quantity at this point
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    that's what iv'e been thinking too, namely about the Orion constellation, because of the line of text at the bottom of the GrnGecko homepage: "A hunter of shadows, himself a shade", which is a reference to Orion. but i haven't been looking at the constellation thing for a bit now. feel free to try it.
    {Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man}

  2. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pent View Post
    Hm, seems the main page has gotten even darker. Initially I thought BCIB was right about the day/night cycle, although now I'm wondering if it isn't something else. Maybe Cakehead is right and it is a countdown? Maybe GG signaling we're getting further from the correct answer (or perhaps closer?)

    As for the layout of the cipher, I still have no clue. Given all the stuff about stars going on, I wonder if the cipher is scrambled like it is, so that it looks like stars in the sky?
    The day and night cycle and countdown were both my theories, but again I wasn't really sure what to think. It's pointless throwing around more and more theories about things past though. Well it's not my place to say what other people should be doing, but I feel its unwise wasting time trying to figure out cryptic hints when there is a cipher waiting to be deciphered.

    I don't really know what to think about the layout. Once I've exhausted my current theory I'm pretty much stuck. I don't know any other way to go about it. The stars idea seems reasonable but it doesn't explain how to decipher it though unfortunately. I am really stumped with it at the moment.
    "The victor rises from the battle. A man who has taken lives for a cause he does not truly understand. Who must return to those who may no longer remain. To live with such burdens; does this truly feel victorious" - Benjamin Caleb Ian Blackwell.

  3. #503
    Pent is offline Junior Twelever Bronze Pent is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCIB View Post
    The day and night cycle and countdown were both my theories, but again I wasn't really sure what to think.
    Whoops, my bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by BCIB View Post
    It's pointless throwing around more and more theories about things past though. Well it's not my place to say what other people should be doing, but I feel its unwise wasting time trying to figure out cryptic hints when there is a cipher waiting to be deciphered.

    I don't really know what to think about the layout. Once I've exhausted my current theory I'm pretty much stuck. I don't know any other way to go about it. The stars idea seems reasonable but it doesn't explain how to decipher it though unfortunately. I am really stumped with it at the moment.
    It's certainly a cryptic hint. In fact, it may not be a hint at all. Yet I still feel it may be useful in solving this cipher. When GG first posted the cipher, he said:

    Quote Originally Posted by greengecko View Post
    The year had been a year of terror, and of feelings more intense than terror for which there is no name upon the earth. For many prodigies and signs had taken place, and far and wide, over sea and land, the black wings of the Pestilence were spread abroad.
    The full quote of which is:

    The year had been a year of terror, and of feelings more intense than terror for which there is no name upon the earth. For many prodigies and signs had taken place, and far and wide, over sea and land, the black wings of the Pestilence were spread abroad. To those, nevertheless, cunning in the stars, it was not unknown that the heavens wore an aspect of ill; and to me, the Greek Oinos, among others, it was evident that now had arrived the alternation of that seven hundred and ninety-fourth year when, at the entrance of Aries, the planet Jupiter is conjoined with the red ring of the terrible Saturnus. The peculiar spirit of the skies, if I mistake not greatly, made itself manifest, not only in the physical orb of the earth, but in the souls, imaginations, and meditations of mankind.
    The quote above involves stars / constellations. The picture on the main page did as well, including the "a hunter of shadows, himself a shade" quote. So does the Zodiac. If, as I suspect, the cipher is laid out like stars in the sky, then it seems extremely likely the solution to the cipher will deal with stars in some way as well. Even if it doesn't explain how to decipher the puzzle, it could be useful in plugging in words and such.

    I've been wondering why the background to the main page is white, when it was originally black. Looking at the image, now almost a solid black, on the white background makes me think of TMA. Maybe I'm looking too much into it, but I imagine all the changes on the main page are supposed to relate to TMA in some fashion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cakehead View Post
    The enter link from torment.html now leads to themostabstruse puzzle without a solution box and a new title; culling portal. Very reminiscent of themostabstruse.com; quotations from Dante's Inferno both visible on the Index and themostabstruse page also relate. It's also worth noting that although the quotation on the index page was used on themostabstruse.com, the one on the culling page is from the same circle of hell as the index one; the gate of Hell....*Insert Carpenters reference here*
    I'm sure most people are already aware of this, but both of these quotes are from the inscription on the gate of Hell itself:

    Per me si va ne la città dolente,
    per me si va ne l'etterno dolore,
    per me si va tra la perduta gente.
    Giustizia mosse il mio alto fattore:
    fecemi la divina podestate,
    la somma sapienza e 'l primo amore.
    Dinanzi a me non fuor cose create
    se non etterne, e io etterno duro.
    Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'entrate
    which translates to:

    Through me you go to the grief wracked city; Through me you go to everlasting pain; Through me you go a pass among lost souls. Justice inspired my exalted Creator: I am a creature of the Holiest Power, of Wisdom in the Highest and of Primal Love. Nothing till I was made was made, only eternal beings. And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope — Ye Who Enter Here
    So it seems the "culling portal" is GG's own "gate to hell," so to speak. A gate to something, anyways.

    Interesting that he calls it a culling "portal," as there are numerous portals throughout the Divine Comedy ... plenty of talk about portals, doors, thresholds, and hope. While it is possible it is all unrelated to the cipher at hand, I find it all very interesting to research nonetheless.

    For example, while I was quite familiar with the sculpture "The Thinker," I wasn't aware it was originally part of a sculptural group work called "The Gates of Hell." The Gates of Hell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Interestingly, according to that article, The Gates of Hell also includes "The Three Shades."

    The Three Shades (Les trois Ombres), which was originally 98 cm high. The over-life size group was initially made of three independent figures in 1899. Later on Rodin replaced one hand in the figures to fuse them together, in the same form as the smaller version. The figures originally pointed to the phrase "Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate" ("Abandon all hope, ye who enter here") from Canto 3 of the Inferno.
    One of the bronze casts of "The Gates of Hell" is located in Zürich.

    Could it be a coincidence? Sure. But speaking of coincidences:

    Quote Originally Posted by greengecko View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lightninglion View Post
    Life is full of coincidences.
    there are seven colors of the rainbow,
    there are seven hills of Rome,
    there are seven rows in the periodic table,
    there are seven notes in the major scale,
    there are seven protectors of Isis,
    there are seven doors to heaven, and
    there are seven doors to hell.

    Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate.

    .......
    GG's post, it appears, is styled somewhat after the inscription on the gate to Hell (or is it just a coincidence?). Perhaps I'm really, really slow in figuring this out, but still.

    While solving the cipher is obviously the goal, I still enjoy taking a step back and seeing how everything ties together. Well, that and focusing solely on trying to solve the cipher might drive one insane.

    Anyways, I believe the cipher is a homophonic cipher read normally ... perhaps right to left, although I doubt it. Looking at the "oranges and lemons" cipher, I think this really is just a challenge to solve a difficult cipher without the use of something like zkdecrypto. Given how much GG loves to quote, I wouldn't be surprised if the cipher included a quote, perhaps about stars, and perhaps by Poe, or from the Divine Comedy, or even Paradise Lost. But who knows?

    Distance and time are not absolute but instead are affected by one's motion.

  4. #504
    Funeral is offline Junior Twelever Copper Funeral is an unknown quantity at this point
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    I'm glad Pent posted the original quote(s), because I've really been wondering about those. I've also been wondering how all this might relate to the original TMA puzzle. I mean, it strikes me as interesting that GG reused the image of the cyclist when the website came back up, and I wonder if that was done to deliberately mislead or to point back to what we were working on then.

    Not that that really brings us much further though :/

  5. #505
    mudkip is offline Needs to say Hello! mudkip is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Not sure if anyone has done this so far on the new puzzle page "themostabstruse" but i found this in the source code.

    per me si va ne l'etterno dolore

    its italian google translate says:

    "for me the way to the eternal pain"

    and the title on index.html says: Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate translated: Abandon every hope, ye who enter


    index.html seems to switch images it is now very very dark it has to do with time but not sure which timezone it is

  6. #506
    Pent is offline Junior Twelever Bronze Pent is on a distinguished road
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    Divine Comedy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    In Hell and Purgatory, Dante shares in the sin and the penitence respectively. The last word in each of the three parts of the Divine Comedy is stelle, "stars."
    Admittedly, I've never read the entirety of the Divine Comedy, but from my understanding the stars represent virtues, one of which is hope. Purely speculation on my part, but perhaps the star on the main page is supposed to be the star representing hope?

    And getting back to the gate to hell:

    “THROUGH me you pass into the city of woe:
    Through me you pass into eternal pain:
    Through me among the people lost for aye.
    Justice the founder of my fabric moved:
    To rear me was the task of Power divine,
    Supremest Wisdom, and primeval Love.
    Before me things create were none, save things
    Eternal, and eternal I endure.
    All hope abandon, ye who enter here.”

    Such characters, in color dim, I mark’d
    Over a portal’s lofty arch inscribed.
    Whereat I thus: “Master, these words import
    Hard meaning.”
    He as one prepared replied:
    “Here thou must all distrust behind thee leave;
    Here be vile fear extinguish’d. We are come
    Where I have told thee we shall see the souls
    To misery doom’d, who intellectual good
    Have lost.” And when his hand he had stretch’d forth
    To mine, with pleasant looks, whence I was cheer’d,
    Into that secret place he led me on.
    According to my understanding, when Dante reaches the gate to hell (sometimes called a gate, and sometimes a portal, depending on the translation), he reads the inscription on it (perhaps comparable to the cipher on TMA) and remarks how the message confuses him.

  7. #507
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    i didn't think it was all too possible, but it appears that the GG homepage has gotten even darker. XT

    besides that, i think i might try the constellation theory some more, what with all the new talk about it. Part of me likes to believe that GG didn't just scramble the letters around like that for no reason X)
    {Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man}

  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shrike View Post
    i didn't think it was all too possible, but it appears that the GG homepage has gotten even darker. XT

    besides that, i think i might try the constellation theory some more, what with all the new talk about it. Part of me likes to believe that GG didn't just scramble the letters around like that for no reason X)
    Perhaps we, once again, stray further and further from the answer.
    "The victor rises from the battle. A man who has taken lives for a cause he does not truly understand. Who must return to those who may no longer remain. To live with such burdens; does this truly feel victorious" - Benjamin Caleb Ian Blackwell.

  9. #509
    Brontarr is offline Getting the hang of it. Copper Brontarr is on a distinguished road
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    If we're straying further from the answer, I can't imagine where GG wants us to go next.

    I tried overlaying an image of the constellation Taurus (Because we've seen references to both Orion and Aries, and the Taurus constellation is between both of those) over the cipher text, and a majority of the stars lined up with some of the text on the cipher. I have a feeling this is probably the wrong way to go about it however, seems like a solution that has some weight to it simply because I want it to.

    Pity I'm no good at ciphering.

  10. #510
    Shrike's Avatar
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    yeah, that's what i was thinking too- there are so many symbols and so many stars in any given picture that it seems they're bound to line up in a few places, so maybe it's simply a coincidence, which is kinda discouraging. I'm still thinking of removing any symbols that can't be interpreted as single letters from the puzzle before laying it over any charts to reduce the amount of possible matches to give it some more accuracy. but i don't know how that might turn out...
    {Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man}

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