+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Results 21 to 27 of 27

Thread: Black Heart Cherry

  1. #21
    jayheedan's Avatar
    jayheedan is offline Junior Twelever +1 TwelevePlus
    Bronze
    jayheedan is an unknown quantity at this point
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    139

    Default

    by jayheedan1 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:48 am

    The story title could also read as a mash up of Black Heart, Black Cherry

    Black heart symbolism with death or loss
    Air lift (racehorse name) in the story "death of a race horse" was put down from his injury on the track.
    Also referred to as "bloodhorse" (cherry red?)

    The flags were lowered to half mass after Air lift's deadly race.

  2. #22
    jayheedan's Avatar
    jayheedan is offline Junior Twelever +1 TwelevePlus
    Bronze
    jayheedan is an unknown quantity at this point
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    139

    Default

    by jayheedan1 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:19 pm

    forest_blight wrote:

    pp. 9+ apparently describe a horse race. A famous/fictional one? "I came through the restroom gate with too much speed and almost slammed the girl in the flowered dress." "I ... allowed her to pass first." "I didn't have much time -- less than two minutes" (The Kentucky Derby is widely known as "the most exciting two minutes in sports"). "She was three treads ahead…" "I slowed my natural pace to stay three treads behind." "I focused on the pattern of white carnations and red roses on her dress." "She kept the same pace." "She navigated the landing turn without looking back. For a fraction of a second, her right kneww was not six inches from my right ear. As I made the turn, still three steps behind, I heard the din of a boisterous crowd from above." "I could hear a muted announcer speaking steadily but the crowd's roar did not seem to pause for him." "I was still half a riser from the lobby level and did not have the best angle for viewing her eyes and lips." "The coat room attendant to our right could see it all." "She had a $5.50-per-hour box seat at the finish line." "She witnessed the Smith girl break the plane of the top step before me. She was watching as the girl's head turned slightly and tilted. She saw me trailing behind hoping for some sort of interaction. I am sure Ms. Mary saw what I could not."


    I agree this is an allusion to a race, maybe even several or the triple crown. Diane has beautiful black hair that blankets the dress...narrator mentions they cannot see her eyes and lips. (blanket of black eye susan's? or the Preakness stakes?)

    Box seats can be rented per hour at a cost of under $10 at most arenas. ($5.50/hr box seat Mary has)

    Whats the bid deal about seeing Diane's face? Head slightly turned and titled, Mary could see what I could not. Her head/face referenced three different times.

    Why mention Gray marble? Is this a feature at a famous horse track? Or was it the number of horses in this race?

  3. #23
    jayheedan's Avatar
    jayheedan is offline Junior Twelever +1 TwelevePlus
    Bronze
    jayheedan is an unknown quantity at this point
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    139

    Default

    by Trohn » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:00 pm

    Ms. Mary could see the outcome of my pursuit. I am sure Ms. Mary saw what I could not.
    "The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those
    who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn,
    unlearn, and relearn."
    -- Alvin Toffler

  4. #24
    jayheedan's Avatar
    jayheedan is offline Junior Twelever +1 TwelevePlus
    Bronze
    jayheedan is an unknown quantity at this point
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    139

    Default

    by JamesV » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:06 pm

    Trohn wrote:
    Ms. Mary could see the outcome of my pursuit. I am sure Ms. Mary saw what I could not.


    I agree, I think this may be kind of a not-so-subtle foot stomp towards Ms. Mary, much the same way that Cal's methods of "aligning the firsts" seem to be the key takeaway from "The Bow".

    Odd that she made $5.50 an hour as a coat-checker? (You'd think that'd be more of a minimum-wage type of job.) I read this story once again pretty closely, and the only exact measure of time in the story was "four hours later" (p.6). 4 hours x $5.50 = $22.00, and 22 is the number of the page marked only with an X.

    I don't quite know what this means (If anything at all!), but it seemed an odd coincidence.

  5. #25
    jayheedan's Avatar
    jayheedan is offline Junior Twelever +1 TwelevePlus
    Bronze
    jayheedan is an unknown quantity at this point
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    139

    Default

    by Trohn » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:52 am

    22 is a valid answer.

    It is part of the solution.

    John

  6. #26
    jayheedan's Avatar
    jayheedan is offline Junior Twelever +1 TwelevePlus
    Bronze
    jayheedan is an unknown quantity at this point
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    139

    Default

    by jayheedan1 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:10 pm

    sprite wrote:
    Two observations:

    Miller uses "fauna" in place of [probably] "flora". An intentional wrong word much like "sexton" in "Grandfather's Office". I won't speculate on the significance.

    The SO, from Pennsylvania, immediately remarked, "Chestnut trees are not in bloom when the cherries are ripe." I do not know but it does seem plausible. I'd chalk this one up to artistic license, but maybe someone wants to run with it.

    -S-


    American Chestnut trees bloom mid-June to early July. And of course on page 3, the story tells us it is Late June when the mushrooms are in bloom, then it jumps to 10 years later when it talks about both trees.

    Black cherry trees (prunus serotina) do flower, May-July and fruit, June-October. So the Late June timeline in the story would work.

    This could also be a timeframe that the Belmont Stakes take place.

    As mentioned before on the board, The dress is a reference to Roses and Carnations or likely Kentucky Derby and Belmont Stakes. Maybe Diane is a horse that won the first and third jewels of the crown. And Maybe or maybe not won the Preakness Stakes.

  7. #27
    jayheedan's Avatar
    jayheedan is offline Junior Twelever +1 TwelevePlus
    Bronze
    jayheedan is an unknown quantity at this point
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    139

    Default

    by jayheedan1 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:18 pm

    forest_blight wrote:
    p. 6. Regarding the cerise tie, Wikipedia says, "The name comes from the French word meaning cherry. The word 'cherry' itself comes from the Norman cherise."



    " The boys, decked in out in loose-fitting khaki pants and blue blazers, ..." & "Four hours later, I was well camouflaged in a white oxford with a cerise tie..."

    Could possible reference the colors of the jockey's racing silks. And/or RED, WHITE & BLUE.

    There are two Derby winners that have had cerise racing silks.

    1947 - Jet Pilot

    1965 - Lucky Debonair

    https://www.kentuckyderby.com/upload...lks__2016_.pdf

    But the narrator wasn't the winner, Diane was, so probably neither of these for the allusion. Did the narrator come in second behind Diane? Or many positions behind?

    There was 11 triple crown winners prior to 2004 TWP publish date and 11 Near miss winners that won the Derby and the Belmont Stakes (losing the Preakness)

    Diane's dress has Carnations and Roses, which implies that she won the Derby and Belmont and maybe/maybe not the Preakness.

    I would think probably not a Triple crown winner since no mention of Blackeye Susans.

    If that is the case the possible candidates for Diane would be:

    1923 - Zev
    1931 - Twenty Grand
    1939 - Johnstown
    1942 - Shut Out
    1950 - Middleground
    1956 - Needles
    1963 - Chateaugay
    1972 - Riva Ridge
    1976 - Bold Forbes
    1984 - Swale
    1995 - Thunder Gulch

    My personal pick for this racing allusion is 1942 between Alsab and Shut Out. Alsab, finished second to Shut Out in both the Derby and Belmont that year.

    by jayheedan1 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:50 am

    The French Connection?

    words like:
    Lux Nova
    Cerise
    Chanterelles
    Les

    These little hints makes me think that 1963 Chateaugay is correct for Diane and Candy spots for the Narrator. As a reference point, it is one of the most notable Derby races.

    An interesting side note, This race was referenced in the 1986 novel "Replay."

    Plot summary:

    A 43 year old radio journalist, Jeff Winston after his death, wakes up in his 18 year old body and relives life knowing how history unfolds. On this replay his life, he bets on Chateaugay as the winner for the 1963 Derby race because he already knows the outcome. This loosely fits with Mary the omniscient knowing the outcome of the race and seeing what the narrator could not.

    As a bonus: The time loop concept of 'Replay' is noted as the precursor to the 1993 comedy drama film "Groundhog Day."

    The racehorse's French name (Chateaugay) fits with the clues in the story.

    *The connection of the book, older man goes back in time to a point when he was young and watching this race, parallels to the flash back of "almost meeting Diane 10 years prior" flashback that is a reference to the same race. Pretty strong connection, IMO

    *And of course the book connection to Groundhogs day ties back to the Whistle pig theme too neatly.

    *Weaker connection but Cork's last name was also Winston

    by jayheedan1 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:57 am

    Missed quoting this when I posted earlier.

    Trohn wrote:
    ...The other French phrases inserted into this story (lux nova) seems out of
    place. (as well as 'woman's loo')...


    dogz007 wrote:
    not to be picky, or that it makes any difference, but lux nova is latin, not french.



    True the Lux Nova is latin based, as are most French words, this term was coined in reference to the French style of stained glass.

    "derived from the advent of stained glass in 12th century France, means “new light”. The Abbot Suger, who rebuilt the Church of Saint-Denis (Paris) with Gothic architecture and stained glass windows, used the phrase to describe the heavenly aura that filled the space."

    by jayheedan1 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:02 am

    Mary could be a reference to Meriweather Lewis who envisioned and built Churchill Downs.

    $5.50 could possibly be payout/odds for a certain horse / race.

    Mary was the coat attendant, the coat room was at the top of the stairs. Diane took two steps after reaching the top of the stairs before slightly tilting her head. The narrator was still a half riser from the top (3 steps behind). Though his view was nice he didn't have the right viewing angle and he could not see her eyes and lips. He is sure Mary saw what he could not.

    Sounds like Diane turns to Mary and mouths something to her.

    At the bottom of the stairs, at the bathrooms he didn’t know what to say to her or even what her name is. "Its on the tip of my tongue, I just can't get it out." Halfway Up the stairs, at the landing he says he could catch up side by side and questioned what he should say or if she had anything to say. At the top he figured it was full of people and someone to catch her and say their goodbyes to her.

    It was the same ten years later on their walk through the Forrest said it was better not to say anything then to let her go off pick every mushroom...

    He is searching for mushrooms at the start of the story and at the end says he is stuck searching the past.

    hand in hand, side by side

    Mary and T both knew the endgame.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts