# Thread: a code of numbers five to a side

1. Hunnytree: Where did you get the placements of the bolded B and F? With the bolded 'S', the faerie was pointing to that area of the grid (page 45). his hand is a bit mal-formed, but the finger is pointing to the lower left corner of the 1/3 square.

reckhardt: The poem says-

P59: A CODE OF NUMBERS FIVE TO A SIDE
P63: REVEALS THE NAME WHERE THE TREASURES ABIDE

So, "numbers 5 to a side" reveals a name. Names can be numbers... addresses, zip codes, etc.... But for it to be so specific as M.S. has stated that the answers are there must be numbers that corelate with them.

I think it was Doc who started the cubes, but do not quote me on that. All I know is that it is the best idea so far. I'm just taking the best ideas right now for my own hunt... but others may do as they please.

There are lots of 'thinking outside the boxes' going on... some WAAAAY outside the box. But I think it's actually simpler than that... hidden, but simpler. M.S. has said that the companion book is to get us thinking correctly... so i'm trying to stay within the ideas in that book. Using Latin and ancient Babylonian is a good idea... but I think (personally) that the answer is not that tough. So, i'm starting my hunt with the basic clues...

To tell the truth, I really like SidingGuy's grid. THAT one makes wonderful sense, and would help things go alng if it's correct. If we can find a third letter to verify it, then that would be even better. So, let's go with the last letter that has a given grid.

C X S M H
D Y T N I
E Z U O J
F A V P K
G B W R L

What about the 'H' on page 86? There are many colours in the grid, but I cannot think of any one place to put an H.

If we use our grid above, it would make sense that the black 'L' is surrounding the top right corner. In fact since that square is the only one isolated, it gives a very good result.

But, playing all sides, the lower middle square at 5/3 is the only deep brown square on the board (the 'W' space in Siding's grid).

2. Sorry... I cannot edit my post, so I apologize for this error:

Should be: So, "numbers 5 to a side" reveals a name. Names can be numbers... addresses, zip codes, etc.... But for it to be so specific as M.S. has stated that the answers are there must be LETTERS that corelate with them.

I apologize again.

3. Hunny: I THINK I can see where you are getting one of those placements, but I didn't use those boxes because of the size, and the lack of grid-dishness (to coin a term)

F on page 20 is a bit too tough to estimate.
D on page 22 is a bit easier, but still could be in any one of three or four places.

With the three on the pages I noted, we have defined areas. Hope that makes sense. Great ideas though, every-buggy (to use a term from Cricket Magazine).

deboriole: I actually started with the number pointed to in the grid, followed a reasonable pattern and then looped around... but I really like SidingGuy's grid and reasoning more. Plus, if his grid is correct, then my ideas of 12 different puzzles is incorrect... and i'm leaning that it may be... but there's a lot more game to solve yet.

I'd like to hope (note the word) that the 'H' is indeed in the far upper right corner. If it is, then this is a VERY logical grid by many cypher rules. Now, we would need to put it to a test... which means a second part of the puzzle.

For that, I am leaning towards this theory:

We take a bug that we have knowledge of hidden images of it on pages... once again using DOC's posts, let's take the grasshopper for an example (pages 59 and 86).

My theory would be to take the words (remember the clue M.S. gave: if you can READ you can find a bug... and:
P48: WITHIN THE TEXT YOU HAVE THE KEY") from the pages where the two insects are and decode them somehow.

I don't know how... that's why it's just a theory, but it does follow a good logical pattern:
* it would give the exact script to decode the wherabouts of the individual insects.
*it is a SET amount of words

But other than that, it's my best theory so far. I see others going on the internet, but all the clues are in the book... so i'm stayin' in the book. <laughs>

Any additional ideas to modify or help this along?

4. OK. First of all I goofed on pg. 22. It was late...and I was tired.

It should have been the "D" and it should have looked like this:

V...A...F...K...P
W...B...G...L...R
X...C...H...M...S
Y...D...I...N...T
Z...E...J...O...U

As for not being able to determine which square on the grid the fairy is pointing to,,,,all I needed was a ruler to make 5 columns down, and 5 column across....just matched 'em up. My model was pg 16 and the Dream grid model.

As for liking Siding's positioning of the letters, actually I think using the natural flow of the alphabet the way I did is more "cipher-ish". If I can determine the reason the letters jump this way and that..to the left..and then to the right, then it might make more sense to me. But, that was why I offered my substitution.

5. OK. Backing up here.

I missed your original post too, noriaki when you brought up the letter the fairy is pointing to as a "starting point" for your letter grid.

HOWEVER, while your wrap is ACROSS the grid, and Siding Guy's wrap sort of jumps around,,,,, in all my perusal of grid ciphers,,,,polyalphabetic, what have you...most of time...the wrap is the way I did it in my examples.

That's why I offered it as a substitution. The columns flow downward as a rule. In fact the only example to the otherwise that I found were when the columns flowed upward. That is NOT to say, lettering in a grid cannot be done any which way you please,,,,but,,,,as I say,,,,I offered my idea out of my interpretation for another way to think about lettering the grid.

What I DID like was using the box inside the grid that the fairy is pointing to for your starting point. I think that is a great concept. And I agree that each fairy is tied to a creature. We certainly know there are 13 drop caps with fairies in them.

6. The other tool I used was a transparency. After I figured out what the grid size would be....I was able to rule it out...draw it out on the transparency...and then I did an overlay onto the drop cap.

Here is pg. 45 and pg. 52. I had to make a decision on pg 52. I think the INNER frame is the one to use for the grid, and the placement of the "O" is at coordinate 5,2 on the grid.

pg 45
H...M...S...X...C
I...N...T...Y...D
J...O...U...Z...E
K...P...V...A...F
L...R...W...B...G

pg. 52
L...K...P...V...A
G...L...R...W...B
H...M...S...X...C
I...N...T...Y...D
J...O...U...Z...E

OK...break time...just got House of Daggers....gotta go watch it. If you didn't see Hero....you just don't know !

7. ## ELEVEN GRIDS DONE - TWO TO GO

I have several more lettered grids...I'm thru pg 69. I only have used a ruler, and a transparency. I have been able to construct a different lettered grid for 11 of the drop caps thus far. Every drop cap has a creature associated with it. The only one so far that I have had any trouble with was Chapter 13, the blocks page. I had to make a decision that 1) the letter the Pickensrooter is pointing to is the anchor letter - "E"- and 2) had to construct two alternate grids...one using his toe as the pointer and the other using his toe NAIL as the pointer. But I have both on my spreadsheet, so no biggie. The other issue with Chapter 13 would be,,,,deciding whether to use the "E" OR,,,the first letter of the actual word "THE"; i.e. the "T" for the starting point to set up the grid. I will make a third cipher grid set to cover that point. My brain is telling me...patterns...patterns say use the "T". So be it.

Shoot, I only have two more drop caps to go. I note each one is different. That is something to consider.

pg. 78 Chapter 17, The Hostage - an "R"

pg. 88 Chapter 18, The Ransom - an "I"

They're all there....and it CAN be done !!

I'll finish 'em and put them in my spreadsheet. Need to make note of what creature goes with what grid. Then THINK some more !

8. Expert Twelever TwelevePlus
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Greetings from the great state of Louisiana!

I'm headed to another great state this morning--Kentucky--for the 'Thunder Over Louisville' celebration. I'll be computer-less, but I wanted to leave you with a Big Thought.

There's a connection between these 5 x 5 grids and the 'even code'.

I had posted this in a different thread in what seems a long time ago, but I wanted to re-emphasize it in case you missed it. It's actually the biggest revelation I've had in the game thus far.

Consider any of the grids that you are posting--a complete alphabet minus the 'Q'. I'm going to use a generic one as an example:

A....B....C.....D.....E
F....G....H......I.....J
K....L....M......N.....O
P....R....S......T.....U
V...W...X.......Y.....Z

Be aware that you can wrap around this grid if necessary. Same concept with the Rubik's cube clue. In other words, if you move one step north of 'C', you reach the 'X'. If you move one step west of 'K', you reach the 'O'. If you move one step NE of the 'O', you reach the 'F'. Etc.

Let's use HUNNYTREE as the example of the word we're going to attempt to encode using this 5 x 5 grid.

Let's use 'I' as an arbitrary starting point. What single step directions move you through this grid to encode HUNNYTREE?

You would move one step west to reach the 'H', but it is now impossible to reach 'U' in a single step.

Yet, a series of single step directions is what the author gives us in many of these puzzles. But, as you can see, it is nearly impossible to encode anything using these single steps as the encoding method.

What did the author do?

He gives us an instruction to use 'an even code'. Every other letter.

Look at the grid again.

In only two moves, you can reach ANYWHERE in this grid. To move from 'A', to 'S' in two moves, you would move NE NE. To move from 'B' to 'T', you would move NE NE. Etc.

In this manner, using every other letter, you can now encode ANYTHING you wish.

Let's start with 'I' again, knowing that we will use 'an even code'--the 2nd, 4th, 6th, etc. letters.

SW N SE SE NW blank E W S S N blank W W SW SW W E

M H N U N N O N T Y T T S R V E D E are the letters you would get from the grid. Taking the 'even code'--2nd, 4th, 6th, etc. letters--you get your answer: HUNNYTREE.

Defining the 'even code' as every other letter explains the utility of the 5 x 5 grid.

When you create your various grids, be aware that no message is supposed to magically appear in the rows or columns. You're simply getting ready to extract the 'even code with one piece nary' from them.

Also be aware that you're not finished when you derive the 'even code', or so I think. You now have to run your derived 'even code' through the next two instructions:

1. Within the text you have the key for the one that is missing you did not see.
2. A code of numbers five to a side reveals the name where the treasure abides.

Our answer won't appear until we complete all three instructions in sequence--it won't appear until we 'reveal the name'.

Keep the faith....

Doc

9. Junior Twelever Bronze
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what do you guys think of this:

Langton's Ant -- from MathWorld
A 4-state 2-dimensional Turing machine invented in the 1980s. The ant starts out on a grid containing black and white cells, and then follows the following set of rules. 1. If the ant is on a black square, it turns right 90Â° and moves forward one unit. 2. If the ant is on a white square, it turns left

I have been trying to use this site since book came out....there are alot of different "bugs" here....

10. Junior Twelever Bronze
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and this.... another 5X5 possible reference

Butterfly Function -- from MathWorld
The fractal-like two-dimensional function f(x,y)={(x^2-y^2)\sin\left({x+y\over a}\right)\over x^2+y^2}. The function is named for the appearance of a butterfly-like pattern centered around the origin (left figure). In the above illustration, the left plot runs from -5 to 5 and the right plot runs from
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ButterflyFunction.html - 19k - 2002-04-28

I have absolutely no math ability....but maybe it will light a spark under some of you that do