# Thread: 5 X 5 Square or Box??

1. ## Magic Squares

Cabunk - I don't know if this will be of any significance to solving the treasure hunt, but I will tell you how I often used magic squares teaching Texas history, a required course for seventh graders in Texas. I used two nine block squares. The first had letters and the second would contain numbers when the students completed a matching activity.

A B C ? ? ?
D E F ? 1 ?
G H I 5 ? ?

The students matched a letter answer to a numbered question. If the answer to question number one was "E", they put that number in the corresponding box with the letter "E". If the answer to question 5 was "G", they put 5 in the corresponding box. If all the rows, columns, and diagonal added up to 15 each, the answers were correct. Don't know how or even if this could apply to finding the twelve tokens. I don't see why you couldn't increase the number of squares to a 5 x 5 and create number patterns that would work the same way. I'm sure math people do other wonderful things with magic squares, but I'm mathematically challenged and this is all I know about magic squares. Maybe it will help you thing of something.

Searcher

2. Thanks for that!

It at least makes it a little clearer. My husband's a math teacher, and he had never used them before!

Anyway, I can't see how they would apply either, because there are an awful lot of numbers in this book, and then you'd have to know the correct order of letters for the other square... but maybe there are others who have a better idea of how it could work...

3. Junior Twelever Copper
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i think your confusing a box and a cube

4. Getting the hang of it. Copper
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Thereâ€™s an (expensive) program called Matlab that I use routinely in my research, and it includes manipulations of magic squares in its tutorial. It begins by showing a print of the painting Melencolia, which you can also see here:

Interestingly, this painting includes the elements of the dog (Pook, obviously), the bat (darklings?), and the compass, and, like our own M. Stadher, the artist was a mathematician as well as an artist. Anyhow, the magic square is also an element of the painting:

16 3 2 13
5 10 11 8
9 6 7 12
4 15 14 1

The â€œmagicâ€ enters the picture when you take the sum along any row, column, or main diagonal. They are all equal to 34. To me, this is not nearly as intriguing as the Fibonacci sequence, but to each her own.

Interestingly, MATLAB actually has a built-in function that creates magic squares of almost any size (though I am NOT suggesting that Mr. Stadther intended the puzzle solver to use Matlab, since, by virtue of its expense, it is not a tool that is available to everyone. I get it for free since Iâ€™m a grad student at a large [and rich] institute).

Of course, taking my cue from â€œa square of numbers five to a sideâ€ (or something like that), I went a ahead and entered:

magic(5)

Which yields:

17 24 1 8 15
23 5 7 14 16
4 6 13 20 22
10 12 19 21 3
11 18 25 2 9

The magic number, in this case, is 65. Well gee, what about lat/long (65, 65)? That puts us rightâ€¦ inâ€¦

â€¦Russia. Oh well.

Using the simplest substitution code, the magic square yields:

r y a h o
x e g n p
d f m u w
j l t v c
k s z b i

Anagrammers, go crazy!

That said, I should get back to my research, which these days doesnâ€™t seem nearly as interesting as our little fairy tale.

5. Oh, and don't forget that for a 5 sided magic square, there are at least several versions with the magic number = 65. Most of my notes are at work, or I would give you a better idea of how many versions there are.

Update: I just checked my notes here at work and I have 8 solutions. There is a pattern involved and I sure that there are other solutions, other than the ones I have.

6. Thanks for the info on the magic square!

7. Here's an online 5x5 Magic Square generator:
http://www.faust.fr.bw.schule.de/mhb...ack/mag5en.htm

You'll see that the number of possibilities is *huge*! I think, if the Magic Square is truly involved, you'd at least need to *know* a starting point!

8. Getting the hang of it. Copper
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That's good info, thanks. Matlab kept generating the same 5x5 magic square over and over, which led me to think that there was only one.

Someone pointed out that, in the first line of my substitution-decoded magic square, there was an anagram for "yorah." Very intriguing, though now you have me thinking it might've just been coincidence!

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## Magic 5 grid

Moxiefox,

I buy your theory, just wondering where you got the numbers that you put into the box? It seems like a huge coincidence that the top row would spell out Yorah

10. Originally Posted by Hunting4Treasure
Here's an online 5x5 Magic Square generator:
http://www.faust.fr.bw.schule.de/mhb...ack/mag5en.htm

You'll see that the number of possibilities is *huge*! I think, if the Magic Square is truly involved, you'd at least need to *know* a starting point!
We do. "Crystal Pook is thirteen"-in the center. Box 13 is in the center of the square.