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Thread: A different way to fill the box?

  1. #1
    pooklover is offline Needs to say Hello! pooklover is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Default A different way to fill the box?

    Only my second post, so bear with me...

    I think I have a different take on the 5 x 5 box, and I want to see what others think. It’s sort of a long explanation, but goes something like this...

    I started by taking the drop cap letter that begins each chapter. I was looking for 20 things to put '5 to a side' around a box. This would give me the "even code" that is mentioned. But there is one chapter without a drop cap- chapter 19. So there is only 19 letters. This makes 'an even code with one piece nary' (Looking for an even code of 20 with one missing) But there is a drop cap letter in "The Dream", so we can use that as the missing piece. By taking the H from 'The Dream', I ended up with a total of 20 letters, and this fulfills more of the poem – “within in the text you have the key, for the ONE that is missing you did not see.” ( The H maybe?) Anyway, so here are the letters:

    Z F D B W B A S A O T Y T T T P R H I T

    I took those letters and put them around a box as shown:

    ….T….I….H….R….P†¦.
    Z………………… ……....T
    F………………… …….....T
    D………………… ……....T
    B………………… ….......Y
    W………………… …......T
    …B….A….S….A….O†.

    I just started at the top left and went ccw. (It really doesn’t matter which way it goes)
    Then I replaced each letter with the corresponding letter of the alphabet, because we need a code of numbers; ex z=26, f=6 and so on to get this…

    …..20….9….8….18….16 €¦.
    26………………†……..….......20
    6………………… ………….........20
    4………………… ………….........20
    2………………… …................25
    23………………†...…...…......20
    …..2…..1….19….1…...1 5..….

    Then I just started adding the boxes up. I added each number that would correspond to the box. For the first one, 26+2+20+20=68, it looks like this:

    ……...20.….9.…..8…..18.….16… .
    26....68….56….73…..65…..77.…20
    6…...48….36….53…..45… ..57.…20
    4…...46….34….51…..43… ..55.…20
    2…...49….37….54…..46… ..58.…25
    23….65….53….70…..62….. 74….20
    ……...2…...1.….19…...1…...15..⠦.

    This just looked like a bunch of random numbers. But then I remembered an old puzzle I saw once, where you had to keep adding numbers until you ended up with single digits. For example 68 becomes 6+8=14, and then 1+4=5. You do this with every number until each is only a single digit. The result looks like this…. (with the inner 25 boxes only)

    5….2….1….2….5
    3….9….8….9….3
    1….7….6….7….1
    4….1….9….1….4
    2….8….7….8….2


    I checked my math and I’m pretty sure it’s all correct. This could just be coincidence, but if you substitute any other numbers, you don’t get any pattern at all, and I find it hard to believe that something like this could be random. Anyway, the problem is, now I have this pretty little box, and don’t know what to do with it. Tell me what y’all think….

  2. #2
    DragonsFe's Avatar
    DragonsFe is offline Getting the hang of it. Copper DragonsFe is an unknown quantity at this point
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    I find it very interesting that most of those 5 digit numbers areNOT zipcodes.
    They look like they would be legit #'s. Sometimes 0 and "no" are very helpful.


    It works better if you flip it on!

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    LanceC is offline Junior Twelever Bronze LanceC is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Default

    Very inpiring! I agree it's hard to pass up a set of symmetric results like that from seemingly random data.

    I have a few thoughts:

    1) the numbers themselves may not be useful, but may be a signal that your previous alignment/choice/concept is correct

    2) this is more of a concern: I'm wondering how one (MS) would create the code... start out with a box of numbers; start creating pairs that add up; ....

    Still, I'm impressed, and I like the usage of the initial caps. That's a "key" in my mind as well.

  4. #4
    spiderman's Avatar
    spiderman is offline Kidnapped... and all I got was this stupid user title. TwelevePlus
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    Default

    Interesting! Do you think it matters that your diagonals don't have the same pattern?

  5. #5
    Mary is offline Getting the hang of it. Copper Mary is an unknown quantity at this point
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    I think you are really on to something here. The patter develops after you add your 4 outside numbers together for a single interior number. Before this, the number selection is random.

    It would be possible to work the puzzle backwards....meaning MS would be able to set that pattern first and - then - develop the alphabet-number correlation and apply it to his chapter headings.

    The diagonals do have a type of pattern to them.... they are identical from the upper corners to the bottom corners.

    I don't know what to do with it, but it makes sense. Good find!!

  6. #6
    Mary is offline Getting the hang of it. Copper Mary is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Although these number don't give us zip codes initially, could it be possible that we would have to manuveur around the grid using directional clues (such as Doc talks about in his postings) to create new, valid zip codes?

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    Milou's Avatar
    Milou is offline Junior Twelever +1 Bronze Milou is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Default

    Did you also notice that if one reads the numbers in the 5x5 box given above in rows, columns, or along the main diagonals, backwards or forward, you get twelve (!) different 5 digit numbers... On a random 5x5 box you would expect to get 24 but the symmetry here cuts it in half!

  8. #8
    d0a0b's Avatar
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    Those numbers in the columns that are symmetrical are called palindromes.

    For a list of more of them, check out this site:

    http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/57170.html

    I did find it interesting that each palindrome starts with a different number(1-5), the middle number 6 only appears once, and the number zero doesn't appear at all.

    just for fun I started playing around with the numbers and was quite surprised to see how easy it was to make my own similar 5x5 grid that follows the same rules. (not from the book, but from the original posted square) Here are a few using |'s to space:

    17671 | 63236 | 27872 | 74347 | 39893 | 85458
    85458 | 41914 | 96569 | 52125 | 17671 | 63236
    63236 | 28782 | 74347 | 39893 | 85458 | 41914
    96569 | 52125 | 17671 | 63236 | 28782 | 74347
    74347 | 39893 | 85458 | 41914 | 96569 | 52125

    41914 | 96569
    28782 | 63236
    96569 | 52125
    39893 | 85458
    17671 | 63236


    I doubt this will have much inpact on anything, but I thought it was interesting.

  9. #9
    reckhardt is offline Junior Twelever Copper reckhardt is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Milou, I get 13 numbers. I assume you are reading each number forward and backward (except the palindromic ones). By doing this I count 13 different numbers:
    5 every row forward
    3 1st three columns reading down
    3 1st three columns reading up
    1 diagonal reading down
    1 diagonal reading up

    Is this correct?

    Also, let's not forget pooklover started at the top left and went counter-clockwise (down). I would have gone clockwise (left to right) which puts the palindromes in the columns. It's just a slightly different arrangement that get's the same numbers in a different order.

    Still trying to come up with the "name".

  10. #10
    d0a0b's Avatar
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    I concur with you reckhardt about the 13 numbers.

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