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Thread: The Submission Method

  1. #11
    Spock's Avatar
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    Default No problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Trax View Post

    I must have missed how you came up with the 7 magic sentences. If u could PM the post you first presented this on and save me some time I would be very grateful.

    Cheers

    Tracy
    The steps in my solution are all posted on this BB, so no need for privacy. If you search on the threads that I started and read through:

    The Solution in Detail

    How the Last Step Works


    it's all there.

    This was all posted in early February.

    The letters of the seven sentences are all derived from letters in the pig-pen cipher.

    Finding the panel of 130x7 letters took a couple of months. Teasing out the sentences just takes a few hours.

    Spock

  2. #12
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    Default

    Spock,

    Thanks for your reply and also for sharing openly. I also need to look back at how you generated the sentences, I read it a while back but need to revise.
    Linz

  3. #13
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    Default

    Hi Spock

    I have reviewed in great detail every word of every post you have shared on Tweleve. Some of your reasoning is superb but I have reservations about other angles that you have taken.


    The one concern that lingers is the "seven sentences".

    Back in early Feb you wrote.....
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    (I deleted the body of text here as it is quite involved - for those interested in a review I think the post was dated Feb 10 - Spock went to a lot of trouble and was very open and thorough)


    Addendum:

    I've already found the first typo in the panel. The last letter of the seventh column is an I, not an E. Otherwise you won't get NATION. Sorry.


    Is this a typo by you or the priory? Its a bit hard to tell from the attachment

    You offered back (in a subsequent post) then to PM the original template. Is that still on offer? I would be grateful.

    Finally....

    The "meandering river" - it seems, I could be wrong, that you pulled out letter to fit a solution you had already in mind. Of course further inspection of your workings may prove me wrong.

    In the more recent post you claim to use merkaba and caduceus - when did you realise merkaba was important? You still havent responded to this question from other threads. I realise these other post were confrontational on my part and I apologize. (Part immaturity and part medication side effects - the irritability on my part I mean)

    I posted an image/video (merkaba) and you said it didn't fit your line of thinking not too long ago. What changed your mind?

    One final question - how long has it been since you submitted the latest solution? Any sign of the priory verifying your submission?


    Now Spock - please dont dodge this by posting a new thread - have the courage of your convictions. I am asking for simple single sentence answers - I dont claim to be half as smart as you. You seem willing to share your ideas so openly. I realise that the wording of some posters, myself included, have come across as shooting you down.

    I am sorry - this is supposed to be a sharing forum - not a site for vilification.

    Like I said - I have reviewed every post - as I have with others - I would't waste my time out of spite (well maybe when I have my grumpy head on - I will remember the adage - if you cant say anything nice then say nothing). I credit you with a hell of a lot of intelligence. Please take this as me simply challenging what I hear and see.

    Best Regards

    Tracy

  4. #14
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    Default Fair enough

    Trax-

    I've done my best to respond to your questions below:

    Addendum:

    I've already found the first typo in the panel. The last letter of the seventh column is an I, not an E. Otherwise you won't get NATION. Sorry.


    Is this a typo by you or the priory? Its a bit hard to tell from the attachment

    >>> It was my typo.

    You offered back (in a subsequent post) then to PM the original template. Is that still on offer? I would be grateful.

    >>> It is attached below. It is also available in the Solution in Detail thread.

    Finally....

    The "meandering river" - it seems, I could be wrong, that you pulled out letter to fit a solution you had already in mind. Of course further inspection of your workings may prove me wrong.

    >>> First of all, the pig-pen text, the last image in the LRB, and the Companion all contain allusions to meandering rivers, some of which start and stop. Secondly, I guessed, long before I generated the correct panel, that this was going to be the right approach. I spent hours applying it, with absolutely no luck, to incorrect versions. The reason I knew that I had hit upon the correct panel was that the sentences just started falling out of it. Only after I had generated the sentences did I discover the multiple ways they led to the solution of the puzzle. As I've said earlier, thee is no way I could have just made them up. I certainly did not create them in order to satisfy my version of the final answer. Indeed, if you really read all my posts, you can see how I painfully progressed, step-by-step, from early, incomplete readings to the final version which led to SS PRIORY x 4, the Caduceus of letters, and of course the Merkabah.

    Finally, I'm a little disappointed that, at least as far as I know, no one on the BB has ever tried to find the sentences on their own. It is actually fairly fun. You don't just read them off from start to finish. You find various fragments which ultimately all come together.

    I am certain the sentences are correct.


    In the more recent post you claim to use merkaba and caduceus - when did you realise merkaba was important? You still havent responded to this question from other threads.

    >>> I have addressed this several times in recent posts. I have stated categorically that (1) I never would have gone the last step, from the Caduceus of letters to the physical Merkabah, if you had not posted about it. I made the point that I saw no way anyone could have made this leap without such a hint. With all due respect, none of your posts entail any comprehensive approach to either the pig-pen cipher or the images which lead in a defensible way to the Merkabah. It was kind of a , shall we say, deus ex machina.

    I realise these other post were confrontational on my part and I apologize. (Part immaturity and part medication side effects - the irritability on my part I mean)

    >>> I forgive you. You're much nicer on your meds.

    I posted an image/video (merkaba) and you said it didn't fit your line of thinking not too long ago. What changed your mind?

    >>> I don't remember this.

    One final question - how long has it been since you submitted the latest solution?

    >>> Over a week ago. I still believe my posts from February adequately covered the solution. Only a proof of the submission method, which I did honor, and the Merkabah business were omitted. I am not sure whether their inclusion is mandatory. I suspect not but who knows.

    Any sign of the priory verifying your submission?

    >>>I have never heard from Priory about anything.

    I hope this helps.


    Spock
    Attached Images

  5. #15
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    Default Panel image

    It seems you can't open it from the above attachment. If you go to the second page of the thread "The Solution in Detail" you can find a copy that opens.

    By the way, regarding contact from Priory, while I never heard from them directly, I always found it interesting that generalzod suddenly appeared on Tweleve on 2/1/08, which was the last business day before the end of the 28 day grace period following my first submission to Priory.

    Spock

  6. #16
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    Default

    Thanks spock

    The reason I asked for your "how to" re 7 sentences was to "discover" for myself - I am sure others would have tried from here after reading your posts. I have mentioned before that when it comes to wordsearches words just jump out at me - lots not part of the intended puzzle - too distracting.

    I thought..... whilst there was a chance you did the same (as in see things!!! LOL) there was also a chance that your pattern would resonate.

    I might take a while because my own puzzling takes me elsewhere (each their own journey!!)

    I must have missed some of your posts or misread them re merkaba.

    Re Meds - still on them - just added a new one today - it wont be working yet - but I have been frustrated about my agitation and irritability and FINALLY they dared throw in something new to fix it as I have been stable (on the outside - think I vent here a bit)

    Re pigpen - deciphered it within a few days of getting the book. Few mistakes were fixed after twelevers started posting. Did the history thing. Tried ll sorts of second level deciphering got nowhere. Posts were sporadic.

    I felt recently I had a fair bit to offer to try and bring this puzzle home.

    Decided to change my tactics and ask more questions. I will still dump my opinion - lets hope with a little bit of chemical and a little bit of biological I can pull it all together nicely!!

    BTW

    Strength of Scholars Desire
    Wisdom of Priest

    How about Patience of a Saint!!!!

    Cheers
    Tracy

  7. #17
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    Default One last time

    To those of you who remain skeptical about the meandering river/word search approach, I would gently offer two suggestions.

    First, go to my thread entitled How the Last Step Works and read through the first two posts. The derivation of the first sentence is displayed explicitly.

    Second, read one more time below what I e-mailed to the author of the puzzle before I realized he was the author. This is very important. The point is that if the sentences were either much more, or much less, obvious the puzzle would be ruined. The extent to which the difficulty of this step was pitched just right is a reflection of how good the author is at this. Along with learning how to actually apply the instructions to the Warning page, this was the high point of the puzzle for me.

    This is what I wrote to him:

    "The last two steps could have been designed by you. After all of the heavy lifting, you wind up with a panel of letters composed of 130 columns of seven letters each. You then have to find seven sentences which are, well, camouflaged within this text. What made me think of you is (1) it's original and (2) it required perfect calibrating- if the sentences had been any more fragmented they would have been invisible, any less so and they would have been to obvious. He really did get it just right."

    Just give it a try...

    Spock

  8. #18
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    Default

    I must have missed a lot in my absence. However, did I just read correctly when you stated that you were sent an email by the author of the puzzle giving you a riddle/puzzle to solve that allowed you to figure out what you believe is the correct application method to solving this puzzle?

    -blinks-

  9. #19
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    Default No

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandalyzed View Post
    I must have missed a lot in my absence. However, did I just read correctly when you stated that you were sent an email by the author of the puzzle giving you a riddle/puzzle to solve that allowed you to figure out what you believe is the correct application method to solving this puzzle?

    -blinks-
    No.

    I submitted what I still believe to be a correct solution to the puzzle in early January. I posted the solution on this BB a month later. Over the next months I made what I think can fairly be described as cosmetic changes to the conclusion, but nothing significant. The "final answer" remains a repetition (x 4) of SS PRIORY. Since that time all I have added to the solution per se are the observations that:

    (1) you can arrange the letters of the solution in an attractive pattern which resembles a Caduceus

    and

    (2) you can anagram the initial letters of the "magic phrases" into the message: CLIFF ET AL, which I interpreted as nothing more than a little self-homage by the author(s).

    What I NEVER discovered on my own were the specific instructions regarding how to submit the answer.

    I believe that the principal author, who I still maintain is Cliff Johnson, realized that this was too well hidden and sent me the riddle below. I think that he sent this to me because I had already done the rest and was best positioned to see this last detail.This is a direct copy of an e-mail from Cliff to me which I have posted previously. The answer to the riddle is not hard to see. It directs one to look at the LAST letters of words.

    Once I absorbed the hint I quickly found that the "magic phrases" could provide a series of final letters which anagram to SEND BY LETTER.

    (The Merkabah business all came from Trax. Whether this is an important part of the actual solution remains to be seen. It is very beautiful).

    To summarize:

    1) I believe I have solved Maranatha without any assistance from Cliff
    2) I never found the submission method on my own
    3) I found the submission method after getting a hint from Cliff

    At this point I don't care very much about the legal implications of such hypothetical communications; I just want this over with.

    Below is what Cliff sent to me on 3/27/08.

    In the context of this puzzle, its relevance is pretty obvious. The last little bit, regarding "hide nor hair," is a likely allusion to a point in the middle of the puzzle where we encounter a double H.


    Totally unrelated... what do you make of this?

    ---

    Further along, the fool met a man carrying all his possessions in a
    horse-drawn cart.

    "Are you the one who I was told would help me return the 14 lost treasures
    of the Land?" asked the fool.

    "No," said the traveler, "I will help you in your search for NEW WEALTH,
    LUCRE, and COIN."

    "Oh, so you are a banker?" asked the fool.

    "No, a traveler," replied the man. "However, if you get lost and need
    direction, remember to find the end of the word and go down from there."

    "Find the end of the road?" asked the fool, not at all sure if he had heard
    the man properly. "But this road leads all the way to the 4 Kingdoms!"
    replied the fool.

    The man's only reply was to smile enigmatically and spur his horse, driving
    the cart further up the road.

    ---

    Someone sent it to me and I'm too exhausted to make hide nor hair of it.

    CLiFF


    Spock

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