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    Quote Originally Posted by hmbl_seekr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pws111 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Trax View Post
    I have started to look at literature published "just under 500 years ago" and based on the release date of 2005 for LRB I figured I should allow a couple of years leeway to allow for the fact the "artifact" may have had its 500th birthday after the discovery but before publication. So my guess would be at the earliest if it were literature then 1560 onward should be looked at. There are a few contenders, the last of which would be King James bible of 1611 (I figured that was getting close to 450 yr mark rather than "just under 500 years".

    The bishops bible was published in 1568 so may be worth a look.

    This one jumped out at me (personal bias) - 1564.

    Monas Hieroglyphica - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I might draw up a list of possible books and share the links in one hit rather than lengthening this thread too much.


    Next I will look at art, sculpture, etc created in this time frame.
    The Geneva Bible was published in 1560. it was translated in Geneva, Switzerland by the Puritans. The Puritans would become the Pilgrims, who would be come the Founding Fathers.

    An interesting piece of trivia about the Geneva Bible. It was the first Bible to have numbered chapters and verses. And clues to the code can be found in the chapter and verse numbers of the Bible. I have a copy of it, and there are some similarities to the King James. It has a ton of margin notes and even calls the Pope the Antichrist.

    I don't know if it has a Key because there does not appear to be any reference points for drawing something on the pages.
    This is very intresting:

    The irony is that none of the groups named in the preceding paragraph used a King James Bible nor would they have used it if it had been given to them free. The Bible in use by those groups until it went out of print in 1644, was the Geneva Bible. The first Geneva Bible, both Old and New Testaments, was first published in English in 1560 in what is now Geneva, Switzerland,* William Shakespeare, John Bunyan, John Milton, the Pilgrims who landed on Plymouth Rock in 1620, and other luminaries of that era used the Geneva Bible exclusively.

    The Reformed Reader introduction to the geneva bible for the historic Baptist faith.

    Here's Proverbs 3:13 (Geneva Bible):

    Proverbs 3
    1
    My son, forget not thou my Law, but let thine heart keep my commandments.
    2
    For they shall increase the length of thy days and the years of life, and thy
    prosperity.
    3
    Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them on thy neck, and write them
    upon the table of thine heart.
    4
    So shalt thou find favor and good understanding in the sight of God and man.
    5
    Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own wisdom.
    6
    In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy ways.
    7
    Be not wise in thine own eyes: but fear the Lord, and depart from evil.
    8
    So health shall be unto thy navel, and marrow unto thy bones.
    9
    Honor the Lord with thy riches, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase.
    10
    So shall thy barns be filled with abundance, and thy presses shall burst with
    new wine.
    11
    My son, refuse not the chastening of the Lord, neither be grieved with his
    correction.
    12
    For the Lord correcteth him, whom he loveth, even as the father doeth the
    child in whom he delighteth.
    13
    Blessed is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth
    understanding.
    14
    For the merchandise thereof is better than the merchandise of silver, and the
    gain thereof is better than gold.
    15
    It is more precious than pearls: and all things that thou canst desire, are not to
    be compared unto her.
    16
    Length of days is in her right hand, and in her left hand riches and glory.
    17
    Her ways are ways of pleasure, and all her paths prosperity.
    Yes, that would be the common thinking about the Pilgrims. They only used the Geneva Bible.

    However, it is not that simple.

    Check out the Pilgrim Museum. They have 4 Bibles that belonged to the Pilgrims. Two are fairly certain came with them on the Mayflower. One of the Bibles that came with them belonged to John Alden. It is a King James Bible with all the title pages removed. Almost as if to disguise it.

    "Quidquid Latine Dictum Sit Altum Videtur
    "

    To see what is written, look not through shaded eyes.

  2. #82
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    Default The Artifact?

    Quote Originally Posted by rjuk View Post
    just a quick point :- there is no mention of any edition of the bible in the bibliography or the time line at the back of th=e LRB,

    if someone has the companion book, could you cross reference these two parts in both books and see if there is any difference

    thanks

    rich
    Rich,

    I did see a reference to the Bible in the Companion's bibliography but I did see a few titles that caught my eye, but this one was the most interesting:

    "The Secret Scroll" by Andrew Sinclair (note the "Sinclair").

    Info on one website says:

    "‘The earliest Masonic document in existence in Scotland’, he said, ‘may well be the Kirkwall Teaching Scroll, which is held to date from the late fourteenth century, when Prince [sic] Henry St Clair became the Earl of Orkney.’"

    The Kirkwall Teaching Scroll - Priceless Relic or Floorcloth?

    Could THIS be the Artifact?

    The Companion was written to help us finish the puzzle, maybe all we need is in the books in the bibliography?

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by hmbl_seekr View Post
    Rich,

    I did see a reference to the Bible in the Companion's bibliography but I did see a few titles that caught my eye, but this one was the most interesting:

    "The Secret Scroll" by Andrew Sinclair (note the "Sinclair").

    Info on one website says:

    "‘The earliest Masonic document in existence in Scotland’, he said, ‘may well be the Kirkwall Teaching Scroll, which is held to date from the late fourteenth century, when Prince [sic] Henry St Clair became the Earl of Orkney.’"

    The Kirkwall Teaching Scroll - Priceless Relic or Floorcloth?

    Could THIS be the Artifact?

    The Companion was written to help us finish the puzzle, maybe all we need is in the books in the bibliography?
    Hmbl,
    I think Trax posted a bit about this as well (from recollection - so don't quote me).

    I can also potentially trace a group of St Clairs (Sinclairs) back to tie up with Royston.

    The Kirkwall scroll is, according to 'some' a 'map'. I saw one of the Sinclairs do a TV program on it a while back.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlockest View Post
    Hmbl,
    I think Trax posted a bit about this as well (from recollection - so don't quote me).

    I can also potentially trace a group of St Clairs (Sinclairs) back to tie up with Royston.

    The Kirkwall scroll is, according to 'some' a 'map'. I saw one of the Sinclairs do a TV program on it a while back.
    Damn, but look at this:

    He became ecstatic. ‘As I gazed up,’ he breathed, ‘I sensed that I had chanced upon one of the great treasures of the Middle Ages, perhaps rivalled only by the 13th-century Mappa Mundi that hangs in Hereford Cathedral. It was a priceless relic that would demand the rewriting of medieval history.’ (from that same website).

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotDogFox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rjuk View Post
    just a quick point :- there is no mention of any edition of the bible in the bibliography or the time line at the back of th=e LRB,

    if someone has the companion book, could you cross reference these two parts in both books and see if there is any difference

    thanks

    rich
    Hello rjuk,
    Yes, there IS a Bibliography in both the LRB and the Companion.
    The Companion appears to have more entries than the LRB.

    As to any mention of a Bible. Yes.
    The entry below appears in both books:
    JONES, A. (editor), "The Jerusalem Bible", London, 1974, ISBN 0-38549-918-3

    Hope this helps...

    ~HDF~
    "WISDOM IS THE PRINCIPAL THING: THEREFORE GET WISDOM;YEA,WITH ALL THOU HAST GOTTEN GET UNDERSTANDING .".....

    A Certain Jerusalem Bible has some interesting information.

    Proverbs: 3:13....

    Happy the man who discovers wisdom,
    the man who gains discernment
    gaining her is more rewarding than silver,
    more profitable then gold.
    She is beyond the price of pearls,
    nothing you could covet is her equal
    In her right hand is Length of Days
    in her left hand, riches and honour
    Her ways are delightful ways,
    her paths all lead to Contentment.
    She is a tree of life for those who hold her first,
    those who cling to her live happy lives.


    Christine

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    "WISDOM IS THE PRINCIPAL THING: THEREFORE GET WISDOM;YEA,WITH ALL THOU HAST GOTTEN GET UNDERSTANDING .".....

    A Certain Jerusalem Bible has some interesting information.

    Proverbs: 3:13....

    Happy the man who discovers wisdom,
    the man who gains discernment
    gaining her is more rewarding than silver,
    more profitable then gold.
    She is beyond the price of pearls,
    nothing you could covet is her equal
    In her right hand is Length of Days
    in her left hand, riches and honour
    Her ways are delightful ways,
    her paths all lead to Contentment.
    She is a tree of life for those who hold her first,
    those who cling to her live happy lives.


    Christine

    And would you mind telling us WHAT BOOK THIS WAS IN!!!!!!!?
    If we don't have the key, we can't open whatever it is we don't have that it unlocks. So what purpose would be served in finding whatever need be unlocked, which we don't have, without first having found the key what unlocks it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diablo1985 View Post
    And would you mind telling us WHAT BOOK THIS WAS IN!!!!!!!?
    It is straight out of The Jerusalem Bible (referenced in the bibliography).

    -------

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLForbess View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Diablo1985 View Post
    And would you mind telling us WHAT BOOK THIS WAS IN!!!!!!!?
    It is straight out of The Jerusalem Bible (referenced in the bibliography).

    -------
    Thanks, sorry for the frustration.
    If we don't have the key, we can't open whatever it is we don't have that it unlocks. So what purpose would be served in finding whatever need be unlocked, which we don't have, without first having found the key what unlocks it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diablo1985 View Post
    "WISDOM IS THE PRINCIPAL THING: THEREFORE GET WISDOM;YEA,WITH ALL THOU HAST GOTTEN GET UNDERSTANDING .".....

    A Certain Jerusalem Bible has some interesting information.

    Proverbs: 3:13....

    Happy the man who discovers wisdom,
    the man who gains discernment
    gaining her is more rewarding than silver,
    more profitable then gold.
    She is beyond the price of pearls,
    nothing you could covet is her equal
    In her right hand is Length of Days
    in her left hand, riches and honour
    Her ways are delightful ways,
    her paths all lead to Contentment.
    She is a tree of life for those who hold her first,
    those who cling to her live happy lives.


    Christine

    And would you mind telling us WHAT BOOK THIS WAS IN!!!!!!!?
    It's from "The Jerusalem Bible" my bible is from 1966,,,,revised from "La Bible de Jerusalem" published by Les Editions de Cerf Paris......I Just love the symbol on the front cover of this bible, picked it up in a secondhand book shop a couple of months ago.

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    The Crypt Angel of Rosslyn Chapel

    Its hard going reading this but I think it linkns together a lot of what individuals on this forum have special interest in. I am going to have to study this in a lot more detail of course but would appreciate the "specialists" to explain in simple terms for the benefit of all.

    Cheers

    (by the way I am trying the silence is golden aspect of my personal journey in case you are wondering why my recently prolific posting has abated)

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