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Thread: Secret Revival

  1. #61
    kevin sharpe is offline Getting the hang of it. Copper kevin sharpe is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Thank you for emailing Mark for me.
    I went to my location this morning, spent an hour or so looking, and taking some photographs.
    The location is called "Lyons Park" and is right across the street, south, from the Anheuser Busch Brewery here in St Louis.
    If you read up on Nathaniel Lyon, the phrase "Rhapsodic Mans Soil" and using my understanding of the term, fits him to a tea.
    In St Louis, at the start of the civil war, he was put in charge of the Arsenal, and there was grave concern that the confederate would attempt to take control of it for the arms, ammunition, and powder that was kept there. He also recruited from the German Population in the area, and at that time, it appears. the German Population in St Louis was not very popular with the other residents. He tried to negotiate a peaceful settlement with the leading southern sympathizers in th earea, and when that didn't work, led a raid on their headquarters and captured them, then marched them through the streets of St Louis in disgrace, which led to a riot, and the death of some 28 people.
    He was also in charge of part of the Union troops at the main Civil War battle in Missouri, at Springfield, and was shot and killed leading his troops.
    I was attempting to tie the unpopular acts that he did at the time, and the eventual coming together of the region and a link for the "Rhapsodic Man's Soil".
    Also, and I could not get a good shot, the statue of him, in th epark, has him mounted on his horse, and the rear leg positioning look identical to the horse leg in the image. I was looking at the possibility of his NAME having been the reason the author placed the image of a lion with the horses leg, to symbolize his name.
    Also, if you look up his history, "Him of HARD WORDS" I took to connect to his stance, and basically, reading wikipedia, and basically declaration of war, against the confederate sympathizers. The sign nearby that speaks of indies natives, right across the highway, there is Cherokee Park.
    I thought I had also pinpointed the other object in the image connected with the Lion Head and Horses Leg, as the top of one of the Lemp Brewery buildings, which had some kind of dome on it, and I thought you would be able to see it from the park, as it is RIGHT across the highway, but I couldn't locate it visually.
    The search is still continuing though, and I hope to hear from Mark and get my registration to Q4T straightened out so I can sit down with my coffee, and spend a few hours reviewing all the information there.
    Again, THANK YOU for emailing Mark for me, and I hope to be on there soon.

  2. #62
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    Hmmmm...that's an interesting theory. I hope it pans out for you. I'm looking forward to seeing photos. Many people have said that the "horse's leg" you refer to is a cast-iron configuration they like to call the "legeater" (because the leg is issuing from a cat's mouth) and that it is depicted only in one place: Montreal, Canada, in front of the Mount Stephen Club--it is definitely there, and it is exact. There are a few other confirmers, but to date, no one has been able to pinpoint a location where a casque might be buried because the area is very "citified" -- lots of concrete but not a lot of dirt. However, that is not to say you haven't stumbled onto another view, and I am definitely waiting for you to start posting photos to see what you have found.
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  3. #63
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    For those of you not able to access Q4t, here is a little idea to keep you busy here:

    I have proposed that Image 12 should be paired with V. 7. Here is my reasoning.

    I'm going to propose a new idea for Image 12. Maybe we are getting a bit hidebound on this board--and maybe Ex is right a little about our refusal to shake up our ideas. Whatever. At any rate, he got me thinking again about New York.
    I went through (albeit hastily) the posts on this image again--all 43 pages of them. And something popped out at me.
    The bottom of the woman's gown is shaped like Lower Manhattan. The gemstone in the image is almost exactly where Governor's Island would be, and the other water droplets could be Ellis Island (left) and Brooklyn (the two on the right). I know that Governor's Island was proposed once, but Trohn said that because it was a Coast Guard base at one time that BP would have had "zero access" to it. That isn't true, exactly. There is still (and was then) a large residential area on GI that would have been publicly accessible. HOWEVER, I've been over the place with as fine a toothed comb as my research permits, and I don't really think the casque is there--although a strong argument for that bear in the surf could be made for Bear Road, on Governor's--which would have been in the publicly accessible area. But I think the bear is just an inside joke of BP's and JJPs. a bit of a Red Berring, as it were. (groan). At any rate, None of the images in the top of I. 12 are on Governor's either. And that's a stronger argument. So where are they? Actually, a lot of them are in Battery Park. The bird--the mosaics--the rectangular figure, and the red/white tiles--all elements found in Battery Park. The mosaics are famous, actually--part of a bunch of mosaics that Heins and LaFarge did all over NYC. The bird is almost the exact same shape and wing-set at the one in the image, and the rectangle is part of a bunch of rectangular stones that line one end of the park. The tiles are part of the subway station. In fact, even the "onion domes" are visible--as those dome-like things on the Ellis island building, just across the bay--visible with the naked eye (or a pair of binoculars.) In other words, not far. And those mosaics--they aren't (in my opinion) JUST representative of the famous ones--they could also be something else: Castle Clinton, (which has a prominent arched doorway at the front like the arch in the Image) was at one time the NYC Public Aquarium. Those pebbly mosaics look a lot like fish tank gravel to me. NEXT POST PLEASE.
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    Re: image 12
    Reply #641 on: May 24, 2011, 04:26:38
    Okay--so how do we make Verse 10 fit? Well, we don't.
    Here's where you'll have to take a leap of faith.
    I think this Image should be paired up with Verse 7.

    At stone wall's door the air smells sweet: It would. Castle Clinton is basically a big stone wall, with flowers and gardens around it. The fresh sea air would be a constant counterpoint to the stuffy city atmosphere. Battery Park has always been a famous place to "take the air" in NYC.

    Not far away, high posts are three
    Education and Justice for all to see.
    The 3 "high posts" would be the three places where monuments speak of education and justice: The Statue of Liberty on Liberty Island, The immigration museum on Ellis Island, and the Coast Guard on Governor's Island. In addition, "justice" could be served by the use of Castle Williams (on GI) as a prison for many many years.

    Sounds from the sky near ace is high Again, the Coast Guard had their base nearby--and there were many "aces" in the squadrons. There was a small airport there on GI.

    Running north, but first across Battery Park is north of these things that were already mentioned--and "first across" could mean the ferry, which runs North-South In jewel's direction the jewel's direction would be, then, NORTH. NOT on Governor's Island, but in Battery Park.

    Is an object of Twain's attention. Oh, yes there is. The Player's Club is NORTH of the park--and Mark Twain FOUNDED IT along with Edwin Booth. Certainly an object of his attention.

    Now comes the hard part. I found the Giant Pole. It's here: Buildings near battery Park | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    But, I don't know about the Giant Step--but I'm assuming it's somewhere near the pole. I have not been able to find a lot of good pics of Battery Park that show the whole place, especially around the spar-pole. I really think there needs to be someone to walk the place and see in person.

    Okay---I know this is a little radical, but a lot of it fits together. The image fits, the verse fits. And the location would have been ideal then, and still is. It's not central Park, and it's not Ellis Island--both of which we have been told were NOT locations. It's not as problematic as Verse 10 with it's "hard word" and V and Isle of B It would free up Verse 10 to be used in Canada--I've always liked Niagara Falls as a location for that one. Or there could be yet another location in New York state--it's not out of the question.
    Your thoughts?
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    Hey, good stuff shecrab. That kind of hard worK to search through whats shared, follow up on an inspiration, find pretty good matches to details and also consider what that leaves us for options to other verse and image pairings is a solid approach. I like 12 as a new york option. I didnt catch the initial reasoning for NY, was there a lat/long for that? Also, focusing on the ferry boat system, which has gone through changes over the 3 decades might help. Ive been to Ellis Isle in 86 and in 90, but can't figure anything into this from those trips.

    Overall, the V7P12 pairing interests me but this breakdown still leaves me unsettled. Perhaps i like the san juan island shoreline match better than manhatten to the womans gown. Shecrab, can you point me to the outline you're citing, or is it just the batterpark shore area?
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    I wish I could point you to it...the pictures are on Q4t. Page 43 of the Image 12 thread. The coastline almost matches exactly, especially the gem location below it, and the other droplets--they match the other islands.

    Another thing--that area hasn't really changed much in 30 years. It has been slightly improved, but the areas further back from the coast haven't really been amended. It's a good location, I think.
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  6. #66
    kevin sharpe is offline Getting the hang of it. Copper kevin sharpe is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Thanks shecrab
    After getting things straightened out over at Q4T, I was able to do ALOT of reading, and there was a posting that related info about the park designer or developer. I looked him up, and his works, and discovered that he did the design/Development for Washington University, which sits at the North West corner of the Forest Park Complex. This put me on to a different image, number 3. What jumps out at me is that the breastplate and stomach area on the armor, right in the middle, exactly matches the area on a map for the main entrance to Washington University, from its intersection with Skinker right up to the entrance area. To me, this looks like an exact match. It works best for me to turn EAST up on Google Earth, but if you lookk you will see what I mean. And, the schools sports teams are the BEARS, which to me also fits the face on the rmor, and the colors on whatever the armor has at the bottom, the reddish colored stuff, matches the team colors, also. I also see, on the left breast area, turned upside down, the image of the Arch.
    I still have a long way to go on this, and trying to match up a verse is going to be fun, as several of them stand out in connection with this. I was looking at verse 2, because it appears to me that there are 15 rows of seating in the football stadium, which is marked as standard fields with numbers identified every 10 yards, and the "in the middle of 21 from end to end" stood out to me, but I would not like to think that the author would have buried the casque in the middle of the football field, so I am searching other options.
    This is also a good time to try to make a trip there, as it is summer, and only summer classes in session, so I might have easier access to the complex. There is also something else that stands out to me, and that is that the University has over the past acquired additional haouing for students, and on the Noorth side, actually had a Walking Bridge built for the students to cross the road, which might be implied by the hands outside of the frame possibly meaning the casque is buried off the campus in one of these areas,

  7. #67
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    A football field seems like fair game to me. Who knows how far Preiss went to bury his little boxes?

    Shecrab, I looked over those images and I'm wondering about needing to rotate the image about twenty degrees to get a respectable match. Im going with upside downs, reverse image (negative), and 90 degree rotations. A partial rotation seems too much to me.
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  8. #68
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    I can tell you it won't be in the middle of a football field. The book states that no public or private land was defaced to hide a casque. Digging a hole in the middle of a football field would certainly be considered vandalism.
    Sometimes you have to rotate things--but I'll bet not often.
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  9. #69
    kevin sharpe is offline Getting the hang of it. Copper kevin sharpe is an unknown quantity at this point
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    erexere, you are tight, rotate google earth till e is almost pointing straight up and the image stands right out in your face.
    Doing some more evaluation of the verses, and thinking along the lines that this is probably just the starting point for the search, I played around with the verses, and what I am familiar with in the area, and I am thinking Verse 7 goes along with this image, and Washington University. Using the entrance as a starting point "Stone Walls Door" and proceeding to "Near Ace is High". This phrase was throwing me until I looked up ACE in the dictionary and saw that it can mean a hole in one on a golf course.... The Golf Course in Forest Park. Now running North but first across has to refer to one of the roads, and following "Lagoon" you can either go North at the Jefferson Memorial or continue on across Via "Cricket" to "Union".
    I followed BOTH of these routes in Google looking for the Giant Pole, but could not find anything, and I am hoping that whatever it was is still there, as that whole side of Forest Park was reconstructed a couple of years ago, to run Metro-link.
    I think there is pretty much coincidence to tie these to together, though, with too much matching from the starting location through the park. Now if I can only find that pesky Giant Pole.
    I have gone back as far in Google Earth as I can, and might have to see if I can contact anyone at the park who might remember anything about a giant pole. I am thinking something like a Flag Pole, and wondering if it might not have stood right near the Jefferson Memorial, which would make sense to me.
    Anyone care to offer any suggestions, or please scrutinize my logic, and see if I am thinking clearly.

  10. #70
    kevin sharpe is offline Getting the hang of it. Copper kevin sharpe is an unknown quantity at this point
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    After spending time tonight, I am thinking that he buried it somewhere along he creek that runs through Forest Park.
    If I can make it there this weekend I am going to concentrate along those lines, and since he says "Giant Pipe, I am thinking possibly where it goes under the Muny, or the next bridge past the Muny on that arm of the creek.
    I am hoping it is not in any of the area that was redone........ and that since he included an image of something close to the location, that I will be able to glean something when I get there, and have some kind of idea what a BIG step might be, and in which direction.
    Other that that for a Giant Pipe, I am at a loss, I looked all over the park, and even went further west to Olive, as Mark Twain's wife was named Olivia, thinking something outside the box, and also looked around the Planetarium, thinking along the lines of Haley's Comet.
    On Q4T, there was someone who was very convinced that there was something in Forest Park, but he was also convinced on image 9, I think, and a different verse. I hope he didn't walk past it a thousand times, and just have the wrong image and verse to go by.
    The creek seems to make sense, though, with Mark Twains involvement with the River, having been a riverboat Pilot and all.
    I think I am down the right path, though. Review my work, please, and find any flaws or suggestions to pass along to me.....I am all ears to them.
    Sorry, I kept saying Pipe, when the author did say POLE, so that might throw a kink in my search, but I will be looking for a GIANT POLE instead. Now to try and figure, hopefully, if it looks like the round column or the square base, or something else. Oh well, at least I think I am on the right track.
    Last edited by kevin sharpe; 07-19-2011 at 02:27 AM. Reason: Reread Verse

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