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Thread: Torment: the blocks

  1. #61
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    thanks, i have seen that before, didn't realize what it was called.

    definitely worth considering.
    i'm not looking at the blocks as i write this (way to early in the day to look at the blocks LOL), but thinking maybe the lines and shadows in between the blocks are used.

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    Hehe, also from the Chain of Death, Chapter XVI (page 72):

    "The solving of this circled code was child's play."
    WHRECVBBLSMCEYVIHTEOIZROMR

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    Quote Originally Posted by tripitaka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by greengecko View Post
    ....insight perhaps unnoticed by others awaits you...
    Wow! that looks like a sentence from The Chain of Death (The Shadow comic book) at the point when the 2nd cipher was broken - not the circle cipher but the block cipher! In respect of our puzzle this would mean ignoring the letters and focusing on orientation and/or colour combinations for PAIRS of blocks.
    tripitaka, reading the text of the Chain of Death for clues is a great idea!

    Out of curiosity, which sentence in the Chain of Death reminds you of gg's posting? I did a quick search and couldn't spot it.

    I'm trying to weigh the evidence for circles versus blocks...or could gg have fused them together somehow?

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    Oyer,
    WELCOME TO TWELEVE


    if he has combined a couple of these codes, in addition to styling the code with the blocks instead of a more familiar symbol, it could make it unsolvable.

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    After taking a hiatus from this thing... I see we don't seem much further along than before.

    An un-tested thought about the blocks: could blocks where there has been a quarter turn represent the letter before or after the letter shown on the block? (alphabetically)

    What then for half turns? Two forward or two back? The block above or the block below (physically)?
    A similar idea just struck me prior to reading your post; that the orientation of the block represents how far the letter is shifted. I'll have to poke around with that tonight.

    Interestingly, greengecko has posted several of these puzzles in various places around the 'net (this one, the geocache one, and the 15 block one someone just posted). They all use the same blocks... they all include rabbits... they all have rotated letters. What's significant about the children's blocks?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skipjack View Post
    After taking a hiatus from this thing... I see we don't seem much further along than before.

    An un-tested thought about the blocks: could blocks where there has been a quarter turn represent the letter before or after the letter shown on the block? (alphabetically)

    What then for half turns? Two forward or two back? The block above or the block below (physically)?
    A similar idea just struck me prior to reading your post; that the orientation of the block represents how far the letter is shifted. I'll have to poke around with that tonight.

    Interestingly, greengecko has posted several of these puzzles in various places around the 'net (this one, the geocache one, and the 15 block one someone just posted). They all use the same blocks... they all include rabbits... they all have rotated letters. What's significant about the children's blocks?

    Perhaps it's the fact that blocks with letters on them... tend to be for Children

    Also, I'm not the best at puzzles or anything but I've tried a few variations of the directional on the blocks puzzle, encluding different mathematical ways of determining 'correct' orientation and after a whole lot of work time and frustration, I haven't managed to come to anything meaningful. Though take that as you will, as stated before I'm not the best at these games and you should try something yourself before tossing it out.

    Though, always with the directional code I keep thinking in the back of my head "why am I using a circle-puzzle solving method on some BLOCKS..."

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by tripitaka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by greengecko View Post
    ....insight perhaps unnoticed by others awaits you...
    Wow! that looks like a sentence from The Chain of Death (The Shadow comic book) at the point when the 2nd cipher was broken - not the circle cipher but the block cipher! In respect of our puzzle this would mean ignoring the letters and focusing on orientation and/or colour combinations for PAIRS of blocks.
    Thinking aloud:

    For the first 25 letters of the alphabet the block cipher used pairs as a 5x5. Three of the symbols were the same for the right and left sides and the other two were mirror images. There were two other symbols (mirror images of each other) to denote a space between words. One of those extra symbols combined with a previous one was used for Z. How does that help with the blocks?

    There are 4 orientations of the blocks. Using orientations of blocks in pairs would provide 16 combinations. That doesn't account for the existence of rabbit blocks which come in three orientations. It may be that the four orientations of letter blocks can be considered as four symbols and a rabbit block as a fifth symbol. BUT, including rabbit blocks gives an odd number of blocks.


    Colours: there are basically two colours but the shading varies. One set is A, C, E, G...etc and the other set B, D, F, H...etc Considering both orientation and colour for pairs of blocks would give 64 possible combination (8x - and that still does not account for the rabbit blocks. Maybe pairs could be considered as to whether the two blocks are the same colour or not. That would just double the first 16 combinations to 32 suggesting that numbers could be included. But once again that doesn't take into account the rabbit blocks.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by possum652 View Post
    sooo is greengecko trying to say to use the shadow encryption like the circles puzzle on the blocks???? hmm ...
    More thinking aloud:

    The circle cipher: (my own terminology)
    A, B, C, D based on small v's in circle
    G, H, I, J diameters
    K, L, M, N based on quaters in circle
    O, P, Q, R based on horizontal/vertical T's in circle
    S, T, U, V based on diagonal T's in circle
    W, X, Y, Z based on Y's in circle.
    E and F are crosses (diagonals for E, horizontal & vertical for F)
    Space is an empty circle.
    There are six groups of four - 24 symbols - and an extra three. Each symbol in a group of four is related tothe others by rotation i.e. by orientation.

    How would that relate to the blocks?
    We have the four orientations. How could we define six or seven groups?
    One way to form six groups would be first of all three rows (as the blocks were arranged originally - A to I, J to Q, R to Z) and then by colour.
    A, C, E, G, I as 1
    B, D, F, H as 2
    J, L, N, P as 3
    K, M, O, Q as 4
    R, T, V, X, Z as 5
    S, U, W, Y as 6
    Rabbit as 7.

    Using N E S W for the orientation of the block (for the top of the block), the first column starting from the bottom could be:
    6S, 1N, 1E, 1E, 3S, 7N, 2N?, 6W, 2E, 5E?, 2W, 6E, 1W, 2E, 3E, 1N, 6E, 3S, 3E.

    I haven't gone any further at the moment.

  9. #69
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    Hi Oyer:
    Page 81 (Just as the 2nd cipher is cracked) "The Shadow had struck on a factor that another might have overlooked"

    Hi Skipjack:
    I had previously mapped each of the 4 letter orientations to all Ceaser alphabets with no luck, hope you can see something I didn't. While the idea really seems elegant, the ambiguity of some letter orientations dissuaded me from investing more time beyond simple ceaser alphabets.

    Hi Knocka:
    Yes I've been troubled by that, still, if there was any merit in the idea of combining colours and orientations then I see the 64 combinations might be a great excuse for reducing orientations to two - either parallel or perpendicular to the text direction - which eliminates the directional ambiguity.
    In regard to colours, there is no ambiguity - all letters are printed in either red or black.
    In regard to an odd number of blocks, while that doesn't sound good I suppose we could live with idea of a distractor block stuck on the end of the puzzle?

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by knocka View Post
    A, C, E, G, I as 1
    B, D, F, H as 2
    J, L, N, P as 3
    K, M, O, Q as 4
    R, T, V, X, Z as 5
    S, U, W, Y as 6
    Rabbit as 7.

    Using N E S W for the orientation of the block (for the top of the block), the first column starting from the bottom could be:
    6S, 1N, 1E, 1E, 3S, 7N, 2N?, 6W, 2E, 5E?, 2W, 6E, 1W, 2E, 3E, 1N, 6E, 3S, 3E.
    Wow that sounds a really cool idea!

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