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Thread: Clue 3 a transposition cipher?

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    I think that's what I got. What's convincing to me about that is how clearly MS drew one stem bolder and taller than the other in all pairs except one. The only pair that doesn't have it is the pair that has the same number petals on each stem--1/1--and that's the only pair where the stem order wouldn't matter. So, like you say, the most obvious conclusion would be that it indicates the stem order for the grid coordinates--one stem for column (long) and and the other for row (short). Some might think this is complicating things too much, but I don't think so, because the difference between the two is so obvious.

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    Default Original Picture on Site for Clue 3

    When clue 3 came out, litterally in one day, the 10 x 10 was the same but the flowers were all set in a line at the bottom and many folks comments on ATT formum (and 12) that they could not see the flowers, then the site was updated with the now current image. I remember seeing a picture from someone who had saved the "cached" image that was originally on the site which might help if we can see the order he put them in versus wrapping them and "guessing" at any starting point. Does ANYONE have the link to a cached image of CLue 3 or can send one?

    RR
    Life is always more than continuous left hand turns!

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    I'm also curious to see that early cached image. If you read the posts just before the clue was officially released, from May 31 to June 1st, people were talking about going somewhere on the ATT website--I forget exactly where, but it wasn't on the official clue page--and finding a picture of the flowers and letter grid. There were links posted to it (if you click on them now they won't work). Then I think later on June 1st the clue was finally officially posted on the clue page.

    If you go and browse through the posts from the latter part of June 1st and June 2nd, you can find several posts mentioning briefly in passing that the official posted clue is slightly altered from the early version. For one thing, the letterbox was "stretched". That is to say, the first one was more squarish. No one made a big deal out of it because everyone was busy trying to solve the thing, and it was forgotten.

    Just to explain, here's how I myself know about the "squarish" early grid...I didn't get the book til mid-June, and I wasn't interested in Clue 3 til October, and so I never tried to look at ATT's clue page til then. I have WebTV, and when I clicked on Clue 3 there, for some reason it would never come up my screen, always a blank page. Very frustrated, I went through the Clue 3 threads to see if anyone had posted a picture of Clue 3. I found that early link I mentioned that someone had posted to the pre-official version, and when I clicked on it I got the picture of the flowers with a square letterbox. (That was October, and the link still worked then.) But I didn't have a printer on my WebTV, so I just copied the letterbox with pencil and paper. I didn't copy out the flowers, since I planned to come back to it later. This was the only copy I had of Clue 3 until the Solution Book came out. Then I was surprised to see the long letterbox. I still have my square pencil copy somewhere.

    Do you remember seeing that, rickyrudd? If anyone still has an actual copy of the squarish version maybe they could post a link to a JPG of it here. Why would MS have wanted to stretch out the columns of the letterbox, I wonder?

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    Also in the early version the "ADVENTURER" column was in caps but the rest of the grid was lower case.

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    Here is a copy I have from June 1, 2:05 pm
    Attached Images

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    Oh my GP, I have *never* seen that before. That rules out at least half of the theories I have been trying for the past two years...
    Redeemer of first ATT token: Dragonfly, May 22, 2005

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    I forgot to mention that a group of us met in chat around midnight on the 31st, waiting for the clue to come out. We were assuming that we'd be able to crack it in a few hours (like clues 1 & 2). Heh, so much for that. Someone, I forget who, actually found it on the website early, before the link was live. I'm certain that this is that first version, although I didn't save it to disk until the next day. And yes, the resolution on it was poor, and probably why they replaced it.

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    OK, a couple of things that beg to be noted here-- excuse the obvious ones, just trying to document them:

    1) The gap in the upper left seems to imply that the flowers should be read as a single consecutive string, as opposed to "five on top, five on bottom, 4/5 on the sides.

    2) The gap also seems to suggest a clockwise read, starting in upper left. Unless you subscribe to the "ADVENT = START" idea, and would start on the left just after ADVENT, and go counterclockwise.

    3) The base of the stems on all horizontal flowers in the original image are at the same level. Any previous attempts to read flowers based on the height/position of the stem base are invalid.

    4) The dashed lines versus dotted lines in the newer image are inconclusive. Did MS add them to guide us more to a vertical-wheel idea? Or to distract us into thinking that?

    Now it's off to revisit some of the old theories in light of these revelations, which at least help eliminate some of the permutations we are facing...
    Redeemer of first ATT token: Dragonfly, May 22, 2005

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    Wow, this is a wonderful find, greenprincess! Thanks for bringing this back from lost prehistory...

    Now I honestly don't know where I got that squarish grid with the lower case letters from...I thought I'd found it in a link somewhere on those early posts. (Somewhere off in the distant mist of time...) But anyway this is definitely a bona fide artifact!

    I'm mystified as to why he decided to change the letter grid from this extra-wide format to the present extra-long format. It's as if he couldn't make up his mind which to show. If you don't mind checking, what are the measurements of the letterbox when this is printed on a regular 8 1/2 X 11 inch computer paper? I'm curious to see if it's as wide as the official version is long. In other words I want to see if it still goes exactly around a paper towel/toilet paper tube.

    By the way here are a couple of early observations that mention the format differences between the "pre-official" clue and the official released clue.

    --posted by maverick023 on June 1st 2005 at 11:24 a.m.:
    "Looks like the placement of the flowers doesn't mean a whole lot. Each pic has them in different areas of the picture."

    --posted by Peteybob35 on June 1st 2005 at 1:23 p.m.:
    "The clue is back to the size that was first posted here."

    The official clue was released not long before this post, so I think he's referring to the official clue, comparing it's format to the previous pic(s). Don't know exactly what that means, maybe people saw two early pics of the clue?

  10. #30
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    Thanks GP...I know that when I saw the image it was like this:


    BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
    oOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooo
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    FLOWER FLOWER ETC....they did not wrap they were all along the bottom.

    This will help though!.

    RR...
    (Glad I posted!!!!!!!!)
    Life is always more than continuous left hand turns!

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